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And things will get even worse, as 0bama gives entites such as the UN even MORE authority over us by way of his appeasement to everyone else throughout the world. Sounds like he gave away the store at the G20 this past week.
I knew things would be different under this guy, but who in a million years would have guessed that to this extent, and so rapidly? I can’t believe this.
If the United Nations had their way, the following would probably have occurred:
1) Israel, as a soverign nation, would cease to exist.
2) The United States would be forced to dismantle/not fund many of its weapon systems.
3) U.S. would be authorized to open its borders, for the “collective good” of mankind.
Because we are a prosperous nation, the United Nations would force us to spend more money on projects with no inherent interest to this country.
By nature, the American people are extremely generous yet we are often disparaged for our spirit & decency….i.e. Tsunami relief efforts, Iranian earthquake recovery, Somalia humanitarian crisis, etc..
Art…no just a U.S. President bowing before the Saudi King, Congress using our tax dollars to bail out companies (AIG, GM & Chrysler), & Congress looking at implementing a Cap & Trade energy policy that will wreak havoc with the lower & middle class.
Otherwise, just a normal day railing against the United Nations.
Also, one quick question for any left wing poster…why is it okay for Senators (Kennedy & Feinstein) to state that they’re in favor of green technologies but against having them placed in their home states?
Senator Kennedy is against wind turbines in Chesapeake Bay & Senator Feinstein is against wind turbines in the California desert.
Kudos to Senators Kennedy & Feinstein for their “nimby” politics.
Chip, we believe that the U.N. would love nothing more than to see Israel cease to exist as a sovereign nation.
Is there any other nation (let alone a democracy, and not the thugocracies usually favored and fawned over by the feckless U.N.) that has been the target of so many baseless condemnations?
They can whip out 5 resolutions bitching at Israel, while refusing to say anything about the Norks firing off a missile.
Left Wing Moonbats, Marxist, Socialists and the rest of America Hating groups lost today when the Supreme Court denied Mumia Abu-Jamal (The hero of the far left) his bid for a new trial in the killing of a Philadelphia police officer in 1981.
“Left Wing Moonbats, Marxist, Socialists and the rest of America Hating groups lost today..”
LOL! You people wonder why your party has become so marginalized? Look no further than this thread and especially this idiotic proclaimation from zonedaitlas. You have all become right-wing caricatures. You all sound like Hannity and Rush.
Left wing loonies are truly funny & sad people when they try to silence other people’s voices through the threat & failure of boycotts (UPS).
I thought left wingers were all in favor of free speech yet marginalize or try to prevent other viewpoints from being heard.
SMH & other looney left wingnuts who follow at the footsteps of KO & Bill Maher really need to find new leaders than a former sportscaster who was fired from ESPN & a D list actor whose greatest claim to fame is appearing in a Love Boat episode.
Not a Spartan fan per se, but I’d like to see them win and give the people in Michigan something to cheer about.
Don’t know, though. Villanova had a good team and N.C. made short work out of them.
Good grief. Just when you think the douchebaggery at MSDNC can’t get any worse, David Shyster all but accused Glenn Beck & Rush Limbaugh of the cop murders in Pittsburgh over the weekend.
^
Your feigned outrage is laughable. You cons had to figure that all the times you incite violence towards liberals, gays, immigrants, etc. would eventually come back to bite you in the arse.
David Shyster all but accused Glenn Beck & Rush Limbaugh of the cop murders in Pittsburgh over the weekend.
You are aware that the shooter was so impressed with Glenn Beck’s theories about FEMA Detention Camps that he posted links to the youtube videos on his spiritual home, Stormfront?
Suggest you check out Stormfront and see if it’s a place you’d be happy hanging out.
Are YOU aware that Glenn Beck just spent a segment of his show today refuting the FEMA concentration camp conspiracy theory? Or does that not fit in with the smear? How about when churches get shot up, is that the left’s fault? There’s certainly enough hatred aimed in that direction.
We’ve had nuts like this since the 60′s, without either side giving them political cover. How about blaming the criminal, for a change.
Are YOU aware that Glenn Beck just spent a segment of his show today refuting the FEMA concentration camp conspiracy theory?
Are YOU aware that he spent quite a lot of time on the March 3rd Fox and Friends explicitly saying he could NOT refute the concentration camp conspiracy theory? Oh, he WANTED to, but they looked and looked and they simply couldn’t find an alternate explanation.
“I have to tell you that I’m doing a story tonight that I wanted to debunk these FEMA camps, I’ve wanted to debunk them. Well we’ve now for several days done research on them, I can’t debunk them. And we’re gonna’ carry the story tonight. It is our government. If you trust our government, it’s fine. If you have any kind of fear that we might be headed towards a totalitarian state, look out – buckle up. There’s something going on in our country that is uh… ain’t good…”
Oh sure, NOW he’s ‘debunking’… when his videos start showing up on Stormfront as supportive material. If you want to see the fox and friends vid, you better look quick – a lot of Beck video is being pulled off YouTube for ‘copyright infringement’, something that never seemed to bother them before.
How about when churches get shot up, is that the left’s fault? There’s certainly enough hatred aimed in that direction.
Oh, and that’s kind of a curious example. The last guy to shoot up a church?
Police found right-wing political books, brass knuckles, empty shotgun shell boxes and a handgun in the Powell home of a man who said he attacked a church in order to kill liberals “who are ruining the country,” court records show.
Knoxville police Sunday evening searched the Levy Drive home of Jim David Adkisson after he allegedly entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church and killed two people and wounded six others during the presentation of a children’s musical.
…
Inside the house, officers found “Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder” by radio talk show host Michael Savage, “Let Freedom Ring” by talk show host Sean Hannity, and “The O’Reilly Factor,” by television talk show host Bill O’Reilly.
Thanks smh & art for proving how pathetic & ridiculous you both are. “You cons had to figure that all the times you incite violence towards liberals, gays, immigrants, etc. would eventually come back to bite you in the arse.”
Please point to ONE EXAMPLE where I, or anyone on this board, incited violence toward ANYONE.
You, Shyster and any others throwing out these accusations are BENEATH CONTEMPT.
Do we accuse you leftie loons when some nutjob kills people, or plotted an attempt against Cheney or Bush? NO. We blamed THE NUTJOBS.
Thanks smh & art for proving how pathetic & ridiculous you both are. “You cons had to figure that all the times you incite violence towards liberals, g*&s, immigrants, etc. would eventually come back to bite you in the arse.”
Please point to ONE EXAMPLE where I, or anyone on this board, incited violence toward ANYONE.
You, Shyster and any others throwing out these accusations are BENEATH CONTEMPT.
Do we accuse you leftie loons when some nutjob kills people, or plotted an attempt against Cheney or Bush? NO. We blamed THE NUTJOBS.
Please provide an example of a left-wing loon with Michael Moore books or Al Franken books who has committed atrocities people for their political views (real or perceived). There are probably a few, though none come to mind immediately.
Now, on the other side of the spectrum you have abortion clinic bombers, the Knoxville nut who Arthur mentions, and the guy who killed three cops recently because he thought Obama was coming for his guns. Then you also have Timothy McVeigh, who was a Republican and had the same bunker mentality of the cop killer.
Abortion, gun control, gys, immigrants – these are all things that your leaders (including Rush, Hannity, and quite a few of your elected officials) rail against constantly, blaming our country’s ills on.
Believe me when I say that I wasn’t referring you to you or anyone on this board (although you do partake in the piling on), you’re extremely insignificant. I was referring to the conservative movement and it’s leaders.
This is what you said, in response to MY post: “YOUR feigned outrage is laughable. YOU cons had to figure that all the times YOU incite violence towards liberals, gays, immigrants, etc. would eventually come back to bite YOU in the arse.”
Sounds to me like you were referring to ME. I believe an apology is in order.
And again, point to a time when Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. encouraged violence against anyone. NAME ME ONE TIME!!!
Oh that’s right. You can’t. You’re just a shrill, partisan hack who will say anything against anyone who leans to the right, the facts be damned.
Do you actually believe the b.s. you spew on here? Is your mind really that warped? Psychiatry might be a good option for you. Or a lobotomy.
Please point to ONE EXAMPLE where I, or anyone on this board, incited violence toward ANYONE.
Nice strawman, Red. That is a complete fabrication of what I said. I said nothing about anyone on this board, just the hate-talk spewed by rightwing radio, websites and notably these days, Fox News.
I’ll spell it out for you, just to be clear. It is simplicity itself to find a crazy far right nutcase whose far right nutcase beliefs spur him to some heinous act of violence against total strangers. But I DEFY you to find a case of a far-left nutcase who takes his/her beliefs so far as to kill a bunch of people. Where are the killers who were incited by the rantings of Olbermann or Michael Moore or Al Franken to arm up and go to war? Where is the murderer who spewed his hatred of the right on his DKos diary? Clue: there aren’t any.
I would go so far as to say, if there were no incidents in the last eight years of a lefty-loon going off on a shooting rampage, THERE NEVER WILL BE.
I know you can not ever bring yourself to admit this, but hate-talk has consequences. A movement can’t call a subset of Amercans traitors and filth and slime for years and years and not expect to see some of the crazier members of society act on it.
It is canonical on the right that sex and violence in movies and videogames can cause our tender youth to become soul-less monsters. Yet they continue to insist that radio ranters who call for armed insurrection have no impact on anyone. These can’t both be true. But I’ve given up expecting intellectual consistency from the right.
>MCVEIGH: I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.
In other words Mr. Mcveigh was a CHRISTIAN warrior.
This is what you said, in response to MY post: “YOUR feigned outrage is laughable. YOU cons had to figure that all the times YOU incite violence towards liberals, g*&%, immigrants, etc. would eventually come back to bite YOU in the arse.”
Sounds to me like you were referring to ME and other conservatives on this board. I believe an apology is in order.
And again, point to a time when Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. encouraged violence against anyone. NAME ME ONE TIME!!!
Oh that’s right. You can’t. You’re just a shrill, partisan hack who will say anything against anyone who leans to the right, the facts don’t matter.
Do you actually believe the b.s. you spew on here? Is your mind really that warped? Psychiatry might be a good option for you. Or a lobotomy.
BR, I’ll apologize to you for your incorrect perception that I was saying you (or anyone else on this board) was inciting violence against liberals and other groups when you admit the leaders of your movement actually have incited violence against the groups previously mentioned above. Thought so.
It will take me about five minutes to find multiple cases of Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity or other conservative leaders inciting violence against liberals. Care to back down from that claim?
I also notice how you couldn”t find an example of a “left-wing loon” with Michael Moore & Al Franken books in his/her house that went out and killed a bunch of cons.
I think Arthur’s statement here is spot-on:
“I would go so far as to say, if there were no incidents in the last eight years of a lefty-loon going off on a shooting rampage, THERE NEVER WILL BE.”
I also notice how you didn’t respond to any of our arguments, you decided to go on and on about how I was personally accusing you of something.
Is your mind really that warped? Psychiatry might be a good option for you. Or a lobotomy.
This, by the way, is a good example of the kind of thing I’m talking about. Those who don’t agree with you are ‘warped’ and need a lobotomy. I guess it’s passe to call people ‘traitors’ and ‘unAmerican’.
Since you ignored my request that you find me a loony-left mass murderer, let’s try it this way. You say “McVeigh was a NUT. HE is to blame. Not Rush Limbaugh. Not the church he went to. Not anyone else.”
It is your contention that people are solely to blame for their actions, that no one else contributes to their decision to go berserk and shoot up a mall, school, church, or whatever. If this were true, and mental illness obviously knows no party affilliation, these kinds of killers ought to be randomly distributed across the political spectrum.
So why can’t you find me ONE example of a crazed shooter who subscribed to liberal beliefs?
Art, is it inciteful when lefties say Bush/Cheney were behind 9/11?
If someone attempted to kill Bush, are we going to blame Alex Jones?
How many so-called “inciteful” things did Olbermann, Moore, Al Franken, Pelosi, Reid, Al Gore, etc. say about Bush over the last 8 years?
Bush was blamed for 9/11, Katrina, global warming, creating a false war for political gain, blah, blah, blah.
Keith Olbermann railed against how evil Bush and all Republicans were every night. He compared them to Hitler, the KKK and said FOX was worse than Al Qaeda.
Now, if someone decided to kill a Republican or FNC employee because of something Olbermann said, is that Olbermann’s fault???
NO. IT’S THE NUTJOB WHO DID THE KILLING.
Terance, anyone who abuses children should rot in hell. They are NOT a Christian. But it’s nice that you not only paint all Christians as murderers, but child molesters too. You have serious issues.
BigRed, not once did I say the actions of “some” represents an entire religion. However, when someone practices or identifies with a religion and commits a heinous crime.. That makes ‘em a “warrior” in my book.
Seriously, aren’t you tired of getting verbally spanked on this blog? It seems someone is always laying the “smack down” in your direction.
The best part, Terance, is they’re all out searching wikipedia now for some leftwing mass murderer. Should keep them occupied for a while. Who knows? maybe they’ll learn something.
Bush was blamed for 9/11, Katrina, global warming, creating a false war for political gain, blah, blah, blah.
With the possible exception of 9/11, which Bush simply ignored warning signs of, Bush is GUILTY of all of the above. So who on the left called for his assassination? That’s right – nobody. And yet, Ann Coulter is quite famous for saying that the only decision to make vis a vis Bill Clinton was ‘impeachment or assassination’.
“So… all the nutjobs are on the right, is what you’re saying.”
Given some of the comments on here today, I would say all evidence to the contrary.
There’s no such thing as “right wing” or “left wing” mass murderer. There are just mass murderers. People who are disturbed. Politics has NOTHING to do with it.
Terance, the only person you’ve “smacked down” is yourself.
Art, who on the right called for anyone’s assassination, other than Ann Coulter, who I will NOT defend and no one takes seriously.
I notice you two have no answers to my questions, so I’ll ask again.
If someone decided to kill a Republican because of something Olbermann said, is it Olbermann’s fault?????
That’s what you’re accusing Beck, Hannity, etc. of.
“The best part, Terance, is they’re all out searching wikipedia now for some leftwing mass murderer. Should keep them occupied for a while. Who knows? maybe they’ll learn something.”
Ha. The thing is they don’t trust Wikipedia. It’s liberal and evil. The more con-friendly Conservipedia maybe.
“Art, who on the right called for anyone’s assassination, other than Ann Coulter, who I will NOT defend and no one takes seriously.”
Ah, of course no one takes her seriously. That’s why she was a major speaker at CPAC. If no one took her seriously, she wouldn’t be there. You’re so full of it.
Rush Limbaugh: “I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for.”
If someone decided to kill a Republican because of something Olbermann said, is it Olbermann’s fault?????
That’s what you’re accusing Beck, Hannity, etc. of.
If someone decides to go out and slay a bunch of people because of his hatred of conservatives, and when cops search his home they find a shrine to Olbermann and Maddow and copies of all of Al Franken’s books, and lunatic postings he wrote on DKos, you bet there’d be some soul-searching on the left.
But the right? noooooo, nothing to do with us, uh-uh.
Do you find it at all peculiar that Glenn Beck is only NOW walking back his concentration camp hysteria? (And the best part? on the far-right sites this is proof, PROOF that Glenn was gotten to by the New World Order.)
For that matter, where’s the left-wing analog to Stormfront? If both sides are equally vile, there has to be one out there somewhere, right?
Ann Coulter: “We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too.”
Ann Coulter: “My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building.”
Bill O’Reilly: “All those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains.”
Glenn Beck said he was “thinking about killing Michael Moore” and pondered whether “I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it,” before concluding: “No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out — is this wrong?”
TV personalities didn’t kill these people. THE SHOOTERS DID.
The rightwing ranters led them to believe they were doing Good Works. Tim McVeigh believed that after he bombed the Murrah Building, the oppressed majority would rise up and overthrow the federal government. Because he ONLY operated in an echo-chamber of right-wing paranoia.
Once again, Red, it’s simple. IF as you claim, political extremism is irrelevant to the probability that a person will turn into a domestic terrorist, all you have to do is find one counterexample of a leftist kook who hated/feared conservatives who then went out and killed a bunch of strangers. American, in the past fifty years.
If you can’t find one, then you either have to believe that the extreme right DRAWS insane people to it, or something about the extreme right turns people insane. OR that these nuts aren’t insane in the traditional sense but are operating in an environment (the extreme right, or reichwing) in which their actions make a sick kind of sense.
After all, if you REALLY believed the federal government was setting up gas chambers to dispose of a large number of people, what would YOU do?
Ok art. Again, it’s irrelevant, because Glenn Beck didn’t drive this idiot to kill the cops. Lunatics are lunatics.
The guy just lost his job, got into an argument with his mom & she threatened to kick him out. She then called the cops. When they showed up, he killed them.
DO YOU BLAME HIS MOM FOR THE KILLING??? HOW ABOUT THE BOSS THAT FIRED HIM??? Of course not, because they’re not well known conservatives, so it doesn’t fit into your storyline.
Lefty killers:
Mumia Abu-Jamal (your poster boy)
The Unabomber (remember him???–killed 3, injured 16)
Lee Harvey Oswald (far, far left)–killed the President & a cop
Black Panther Party
The Weathermen
Numerous acts of domestic terrorism from animals right & other leftie groups
Now, who do we blame for these???? I’ve got an idea. How about THE PEOPLE THAT COMMITTED THE CRIMES!!!!
Black Panthers – Militant black separatist group; NOT liberal but the equivalent of the white supremist groups such as Christian Identity. This includes Mumia Abu-Jamal
Unabomber – Luddite Libertarian anarchist, more likely to be a Ron Paul supporter than a fan of anyone on the left.
The Weathermen? KILLED NO ONE.
Animal rights groups, I’m unfamiliar with – you’re going to have to clue me in on their body count.
The guy just lost his job, got into an argument with his mom & she threatened to kick him out. She then called the cops. When they showed up, he killed them.
What happens when most people lose their jobs and then get in an argument with their moms? Do they typically GET THEIR AK47 and put on their BULLETPROOF VESTS? No, this is behavior usually associated with people who think the country is being taken over by the New World Order and they’re going to be sent to the gas chamber if they don’t fight back.
–The Black Panthers were founded as a socialist organization.
–The Unabomber railed against the left as a government controlling entity, but his anti-technology rants are very much in line with the tree hugging mentality of many of the left.
The Weathermen–think again. They killed THREE people and injured countless numbers, not only with their bombs, but with riots.
Animal rights groups–firebombed the houses of scientists. Attempted murder.
Art, again….. their politics are not the point. THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE ACTS ARE RESPONSIBLE, AND THEM ALONE.
It’s irrelevant.
You also didn’t answer my question. If someone watched an Olbermann rant against George Bush, and then decided to kill some Republicans, is Olbermann to blame???
The three people ‘killed’ by the weathermen were… weathermen who died in an explosion. The weathermen only targeted property and not people.
his anti-technology rants are very much in line with the tree hugging mentality of many of the left.
Bullshyte. Simple total non sequitor nonsense.
–The Black Panthers were founded as a socialist organization.
Black nationalism and black racism are not ‘liberal’ values.
You also didn’t answer my question. If someone watched an Olbermann rant against George Bush, and then decided to kill some Republicans, is Olbermann to blame???
If this happened, you would see a lot of people toning down their rhetoric. But it won’t for the following reasons:
the extreme of the left do NOT hatemonger against entire classes of people. Olbermann and his ilk reserve their bile for the people who actually implement things they disagree with. Al Franken calls Rush Limbaugh a big fat idiot, Olbermann declares Bill O’Reilly Worst Person in the Universe – Ann Coulter calls ALL LIBERALS traitors, and Rush Limbaugh suggests we don’t kill them ALL, just most of them. Do you honestly think these two sets of statements are equivalent?
The vilifying of a large subset of the population by another subset of the population is classic mind control techniques. You can turn a very large portion of mankind into a lynch mob if you play them right – authoritarian figures have known and exploited this for years.
But here’s the deal – you can only use fear and hate to control authoritarian follower personality types, which makes up about a quarter of the population. And not surprisingly, most authoritarian follower personality types are conservative.
And if the statements of, say, Glenn Beck were not in any way responsible for what some crazy nut believes, why is Beck now walking away from his alarmist rantings as fast as he can?
THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE ACTS ARE RESPONSIBLE, AND THEM ALONE.
I’m all for people taking ultimate responsibility for their actions.
For instance, is Jodie Foster responsible for Hinckley thinking he could impress her by shooting a president? No, because she never said or did anything to lead anyone to believe this was a route to her favor.
If some nutcase shoots up a bunch of liberals to impress Rush Limbaugh? when Limbaugh is on record suggesting that you shouldn’t shoot ALL the liberals, just MOST of them? Limbaugh needs to accept responsibility for putting the idea in a crazy person’s head that he would approve of killing liberals, because THAT’S WHAT HE SAID.
Glenn Beck went on the air PROVING the FEMA conspiracy theory was b.s.
He is, in no way, shape or form, responsible for some psycho deciding to kill some cops who were called to the house by the guy’s mother.
He has compared Republicans and FNC to Nazis, the KKK, said they’re worse than Al Qaeda, accused Bush of killing hundreds of thousands of innocents, inventing a war for oil, called him a war criminaland on and on and on.
None of this has any basis in fact and could be described as inciting hate.
These incidents are a little worse than calling O’Reilly the “worst person in the world”‘ every single night.
But that doesn’t make Olbermann responsible if someone actually believes his drivel and decides to kill Republicans because of it.
Just like no one is responsible for McVeigh, the Pittsburgh shootings, etc. EXCEPT FOR THE KILLERS. Period.
Google ‘glenn beck grand theft morality’, and watch Glenn Beck make the claim that playing Grand Theft Auto turns people into killers. What about personal responsibility?
One last time. There’s one person responsible for pulling a trigger.
It’s not the gun manufacturer, the store manager, the NRA, a TV commentator, the boss who fired you, the government, a computer game, your significant other or the kid who picked on you in third grade.
I get that you’re big on personal responsibility, Red. I know it’s a Big Conservative Value.
Thought problem. If parents don’t discipline their kid and he turns into a rude, thoughtless and selfish toddler, is it the four-year-old kid’s fault? or the parents’ fault?
If you say, like most people would, that it’s the parents’ fault, at once point does it become the kid’s fault? when he reaches the magical age of eighteen? sooner? later?
Everyone has to blow off some steam. Nobody’s going to change anyone’s mind since its ideological. Plenty of loons on both sides. Plenty of inciters on both sides. It’s all just a bunch of noise to me.
There is that false equivocation again. I have been asking BR to provide quotes or examples of those in power or those that have powerful platforms on the left who are saying things that are equivalent to the quotes above from Coulter, Limbaugh and Beck. They breed paranoia and incite hatred towards liberals (and others). This leads to an unstable person killing three cops because he thinks Obama is coming to take his guns. Where did he hear that? How did he come about this false knowledge?
smh, how many freaking times do I have to say something before it sinks in????
Olbermann spews hate toward all things conservative EVERY NIGHT!
When someone plots to kill Bush, do you blame Olbermann? Of course not.
Because you’re a hypocrite.
FOR THE FINAL, F’N TIME…..THE SHOOTER, AND NO ONE ELSE, IS RESPONSIBLE!!!
Art, you bring up a good point about kids & parents. The parents do have to take a responsibility too. I don’t think there is an “age limit” though of when the kid is responsible.
There are child murderers that deserve to be locked away for a long time, if not life. Lionel Tate was one. I think he was 12 or so when he murdered that little girl.
Art, you bring up a good point about kids & parents. The parents do have to take a responsibility too. I don’t think there is an “age limit” though of when the kid is responsible.
Then you admit that the environment one lives in has SOME influence on one’s attitudes?
Your point seems to be that far-right hate talk can have no influence on someone’s decisions. But taking that to its logical conclusion, talk of any kind can have no influence on what someone decides to do. The teachings of Jesus or Gandhi, or the rantings of Hitler or Pol Pot, had no affect on their audience? Why does Rush Limbaugh talk on air for hours a day, if not to convince people of something?
And whether you are willing to admit it or not, there are qualitative differences between the kind of vitriol spewed by the extremes of left and right. I have NEVER heard a left-wing nut suggest that conservatives ought to be rounded up and killed. Yet it’s a JOKE to Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh. Why are there no left-wing analogs to Stormfront?
BigRed is more or less right about Olbermann. And SMH…I’ve been on Democratic Underground enough times to know that the hate and vile on the right from Free Republic does have an equal on the left.
I have been asking BR to provide quotes or examples of those in power or those that have powerful platforms on the left who are saying things that are equivalent to the quotes above from Coulter, Limbaugh and Beck.
That’s sort of a BS argument in my eyes because nobody on the Left comes close to having the powerful platform of a Beck, Limbaugh or a Coulter. But that doesn’t mean that just because there aren’t lefties with as powerful a platform that there aren’t loony lefties who scream bloody murder and incite stuff. Because there are.
But that doesn’t mean that just because there aren’t lefties with as powerful a platform that there aren’t loony lefties who scream bloody murder and incite stuff. Because there are.
then I repeat – where are the mad killers inspired by them?
These things are cyclical. In the 80s and 90s it was the right wing militias. In the 60s and 70s it was left para-military groups. You can’t look at this from a short term perspective.
Art, of course one’s environment, or the words of someone else, can have an impact on them.
But you can’t sit here and compare Pol Pot & Hitler to Glenn Beck.
Is Beck ordering people to go kill cops? NO. If he were, he would be yanked off the air, and you MIGHT, have a case against him if he did such a thing. But he didn’t. Nor has Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.
And the ultimately responsibility would STILL LIE WITH THE PERSON DOING THE KILLING.
And for a so-called “journalist”, which Shyster tries to be but isn’t, to try to lay the blame for these killings on Beck or Limbaugh is beyond disgusting.
So your entire argument is a complete house of cards.
And for a so-called “journalist”, which Shyster tries to be but isn’t, to try to lay the blame for these killings on Beck or Limbaugh is beyond disgusting.
Just to be clear, I’m NOT claiming people who shoot up a bunch of people are innocent pawns of outside forces. I AM saying that the milieu in which they live has SOME influence on them (and on us all) and that EVERYONE has some responsibility for that environment.
Which is, fwiw, a fairly ‘conservative’ point of view. After all, LIBERALS aren’t the ones all up in arms about song lyrics and the content of video games.
These things are cyclical. In the 80s and 90s it was the right wing militias. In the 60s and 70s it was left para-military groups.
I’m not saying it’s not cyclic, but we’re certainly seeing an upswing in ‘chatter’ on the right very similar to the kind of talk that was prevalent before OKC. Crazy talk is moving from the fringe of middle-of-the-night radio to the MSM. It is irresponsible to play with the fears of crazy people for your own political or arbitron advantage.
The histrionic crap from radio/cable heads is a little out of line sometimes, but the same crap from elected officials is what worries me. Michelle Bachman talking about being “armed and dangerous” for your country, and claiming kids will be in “re-education camps”, is a problem.
Michelle Bachman talking about being “armed and dangerous” for your country, and claiming kids will be in “re-education camps”, is a problem.
What’s sad is, I’m pretty sure she believes what she’s saying. Remember Helen Chenoweth?
During her tenure, she was referred to by her most outspoken critics as a “poster-child for the militias,” and in February 1995 she voiced the suspicion that armed federal agents were landing black helicopters on Idaho ranchers’ property to enforce the Endangered Species Act, in line with a conspiracy theory popular in far-right circles.
“Bachman is a loon, which seems to be the prerequisite for elected officials in Minnesota.”
This is a rare point of agreement. Thankfully, they’re replacing one of their prime loons with Al Franken.
FINALLY, the right is starting to concede that Franken did actually win this thing AND that the election recount was not “unfair”. Too bad, it only took them four months.
Scott Johnson at nro.com and powerline has said as much.
April 6, 2009 at 7:02 am
The UN is the most worthless body ever! Why does it still exist???
April 6, 2009 at 7:15 am
Kath, a better question is….Why do we, as U.S. taxpayers, spend millions of dollars a year to fund it?
Their resolutions are laughable. “If you do not do what we tell you to do in this statement, we will……issue another statement.”
April 6, 2009 at 8:38 am
You’re right Red, the taxpayer part of it bugs me to no end as well. Their resolutions are such a joke. Who takes them seriously?? No one.
April 6, 2009 at 8:54 am
And things will get even worse, as 0bama gives entites such as the UN even MORE authority over us by way of his appeasement to everyone else throughout the world. Sounds like he gave away the store at the G20 this past week.
I knew things would be different under this guy, but who in a million years would have guessed that to this extent, and so rapidly? I can’t believe this.
April 6, 2009 at 8:59 am
If the United Nations had their way, the following would probably have occurred:
1) Israel, as a soverign nation, would cease to exist.
2) The United States would be forced to dismantle/not fund many of its weapon systems.
3) U.S. would be authorized to open its borders, for the “collective good” of mankind.
Because we are a prosperous nation, the United Nations would force us to spend more money on projects with no inherent interest to this country.
By nature, the American people are extremely generous yet we are often disparaged for our spirit & decency….i.e. Tsunami relief efforts, Iranian earthquake recovery, Somalia humanitarian crisis, etc..
April 6, 2009 at 9:01 am
Black helicopters hovering over you guys’ houses yet?
April 6, 2009 at 9:23 am
Art…no just a U.S. President bowing before the Saudi King, Congress using our tax dollars to bail out companies (AIG, GM & Chrysler), & Congress looking at implementing a Cap & Trade energy policy that will wreak havoc with the lower & middle class.
Otherwise, just a normal day railing against the United Nations.
April 6, 2009 at 9:32 am
Also, one quick question for any left wing poster…why is it okay for Senators (Kennedy & Feinstein) to state that they’re in favor of green technologies but against having them placed in their home states?
Senator Kennedy is against wind turbines in Chesapeake Bay & Senator Feinstein is against wind turbines in the California desert.
Kudos to Senators Kennedy & Feinstein for their “nimby” politics.
April 6, 2009 at 10:18 am
As this thread illustrates, wingnuts are funny. They can whip themselves up into a frenzy over virtually anything insignificant. LOL.
April 6, 2009 at 10:42 am
Chip, we believe that the U.N. would love nothing more than to see Israel cease to exist as a sovereign nation.
Is there any other nation (let alone a democracy, and not the thugocracies usually favored and fawned over by the feckless U.N.) that has been the target of so many baseless condemnations?
They can whip out 5 resolutions bitching at Israel, while refusing to say anything about the Norks firing off a missile.
April 6, 2009 at 10:42 am
Unclear, at least we found one thing you’re good at: setting up and knocking down straw men. You and the Hopey-changer are quite adept at that.
April 6, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Left Wing Moonbats, Marxist, Socialists and the rest of America Hating groups lost today when the Supreme Court denied Mumia Abu-Jamal (The hero of the far left) his bid for a new trial in the killing of a Philadelphia police officer in 1981.
April 6, 2009 at 1:05 pm
“Left Wing Moonbats, Marxist, Socialists and the rest of America Hating groups lost today..”
LOL! You people wonder why your party has become so marginalized? Look no further than this thread and especially this idiotic proclaimation from zonedaitlas. You have all become right-wing caricatures. You all sound like Hannity and Rush.
April 6, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Left wing loonies are truly funny & sad people when they try to silence other people’s voices through the threat & failure of boycotts (UPS).
I thought left wingers were all in favor of free speech yet marginalize or try to prevent other viewpoints from being heard.
SMH & other looney left wingnuts who follow at the footsteps of KO & Bill Maher really need to find new leaders than a former sportscaster who was fired from ESPN & a D list actor whose greatest claim to fame is appearing in a Love Boat episode.
April 6, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Oh, you sound angry chip….
April 6, 2009 at 1:57 pm
smh…I’m not angry at all. Looking forward to tonight’s game. Sparty fan here.
April 6, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Not a Spartan fan per se, but I’d like to see them win and give the people in Michigan something to cheer about.
Don’t know, though. Villanova had a good team and N.C. made short work out of them.
April 6, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Good grief. Just when you think the douchebaggery at MSDNC can’t get any worse, David Shyster all but accused Glenn Beck & Rush Limbaugh of the cop murders in Pittsburgh over the weekend.
Video on hotair.
Un-FN-believable.
April 6, 2009 at 7:06 pm
^
Your feigned outrage is laughable. You cons had to figure that all the times you incite violence towards liberals, gays, immigrants, etc. would eventually come back to bite you in the arse.
April 6, 2009 at 8:47 pm
David Shyster all but accused Glenn Beck & Rush Limbaugh of the cop murders in Pittsburgh over the weekend.
You are aware that the shooter was so impressed with Glenn Beck’s theories about FEMA Detention Camps that he posted links to the youtube videos on his spiritual home, Stormfront?
Suggest you check out Stormfront and see if it’s a place you’d be happy hanging out.
April 6, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Are YOU aware that Glenn Beck just spent a segment of his show today refuting the FEMA concentration camp conspiracy theory? Or does that not fit in with the smear? How about when churches get shot up, is that the left’s fault? There’s certainly enough hatred aimed in that direction.
We’ve had nuts like this since the 60′s, without either side giving them political cover. How about blaming the criminal, for a change.
April 7, 2009 at 12:16 am
Are YOU aware that Glenn Beck just spent a segment of his show today refuting the FEMA concentration camp conspiracy theory?
Are YOU aware that he spent quite a lot of time on the March 3rd Fox and Friends explicitly saying he could NOT refute the concentration camp conspiracy theory? Oh, he WANTED to, but they looked and looked and they simply couldn’t find an alternate explanation.
“I have to tell you that I’m doing a story tonight that I wanted to debunk these FEMA camps, I’ve wanted to debunk them. Well we’ve now for several days done research on them, I can’t debunk them. And we’re gonna’ carry the story tonight. It is our government. If you trust our government, it’s fine. If you have any kind of fear that we might be headed towards a totalitarian state, look out – buckle up. There’s something going on in our country that is uh… ain’t good…”
Oh sure, NOW he’s ‘debunking’… when his videos start showing up on Stormfront as supportive material. If you want to see the fox and friends vid, you better look quick – a lot of Beck video is being pulled off YouTube for ‘copyright infringement’, something that never seemed to bother them before.
April 7, 2009 at 1:07 am
How about when churches get shot up, is that the left’s fault? There’s certainly enough hatred aimed in that direction.
Oh, and that’s kind of a curious example. The last guy to shoot up a church?
April 7, 2009 at 6:09 am
Notice the deafening silence Arthur?
April 7, 2009 at 7:56 am
Thanks smh & art for proving how pathetic & ridiculous you both are. “You cons had to figure that all the times you incite violence towards liberals, gays, immigrants, etc. would eventually come back to bite you in the arse.”
Please point to ONE EXAMPLE where I, or anyone on this board, incited violence toward ANYONE.
You, Shyster and any others throwing out these accusations are BENEATH CONTEMPT.
Do we accuse you leftie loons when some nutjob kills people, or plotted an attempt against Cheney or Bush? NO. We blamed THE NUTJOBS.
April 7, 2009 at 7:57 am
Thanks smh & art for proving how pathetic & ridiculous you both are. “You cons had to figure that all the times you incite violence towards liberals, g*&s, immigrants, etc. would eventually come back to bite you in the arse.”
Please point to ONE EXAMPLE where I, or anyone on this board, incited violence toward ANYONE.
You, Shyster and any others throwing out these accusations are BENEATH CONTEMPT.
Do we accuse you leftie loons when some nutjob kills people, or plotted an attempt against Cheney or Bush? NO. We blamed THE NUTJOBS.
April 7, 2009 at 8:12 am
Please provide an example of a left-wing loon with Michael Moore books or Al Franken books who has committed atrocities people for their political views (real or perceived). There are probably a few, though none come to mind immediately.
Now, on the other side of the spectrum you have abortion clinic bombers, the Knoxville nut who Arthur mentions, and the guy who killed three cops recently because he thought Obama was coming for his guns. Then you also have Timothy McVeigh, who was a Republican and had the same bunker mentality of the cop killer.
Abortion, gun control, gys, immigrants – these are all things that your leaders (including Rush, Hannity, and quite a few of your elected officials) rail against constantly, blaming our country’s ills on.
Believe me when I say that I wasn’t referring you to you or anyone on this board (although you do partake in the piling on), you’re extremely insignificant. I was referring to the conservative movement and it’s leaders.
April 7, 2009 at 8:12 am
That’s supposed to be “commited atrocities AGAINST people for their political views..”
April 7, 2009 at 8:29 am
This is what you said, in response to MY post: “YOUR feigned outrage is laughable. YOU cons had to figure that all the times YOU incite violence towards liberals, gays, immigrants, etc. would eventually come back to bite YOU in the arse.”
Sounds to me like you were referring to ME. I believe an apology is in order.
And again, point to a time when Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. encouraged violence against anyone. NAME ME ONE TIME!!!
Oh that’s right. You can’t. You’re just a shrill, partisan hack who will say anything against anyone who leans to the right, the facts be damned.
Do you actually believe the b.s. you spew on here? Is your mind really that warped? Psychiatry might be a good option for you. Or a lobotomy.
April 7, 2009 at 8:32 am
Please point to ONE EXAMPLE where I, or anyone on this board, incited violence toward ANYONE.
Nice strawman, Red. That is a complete fabrication of what I said. I said nothing about anyone on this board, just the hate-talk spewed by rightwing radio, websites and notably these days, Fox News.
I’ll spell it out for you, just to be clear. It is simplicity itself to find a crazy far right nutcase whose far right nutcase beliefs spur him to some heinous act of violence against total strangers. But I DEFY you to find a case of a far-left nutcase who takes his/her beliefs so far as to kill a bunch of people. Where are the killers who were incited by the rantings of Olbermann or Michael Moore or Al Franken to arm up and go to war? Where is the murderer who spewed his hatred of the right on his DKos diary? Clue: there aren’t any.
I would go so far as to say, if there were no incidents in the last eight years of a lefty-loon going off on a shooting rampage, THERE NEVER WILL BE.
I know you can not ever bring yourself to admit this, but hate-talk has consequences. A movement can’t call a subset of Amercans traitors and filth and slime for years and years and not expect to see some of the crazier members of society act on it.
It is canonical on the right that sex and violence in movies and videogames can cause our tender youth to become soul-less monsters. Yet they continue to insist that radio ranters who call for armed insurrection have no impact on anyone. These can’t both be true. But I’ve given up expecting intellectual consistency from the right.
April 7, 2009 at 8:35 am
Via Time.com
>MCVEIGH: I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.
In other words Mr. Mcveigh was a CHRISTIAN warrior.
April 7, 2009 at 8:37 am
This is what you said, in response to MY post: “YOUR feigned outrage is laughable. YOU cons had to figure that all the times YOU incite violence towards liberals, g*&%, immigrants, etc. would eventually come back to bite YOU in the arse.”
Sounds to me like you were referring to ME and other conservatives on this board. I believe an apology is in order.
And again, point to a time when Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. encouraged violence against anyone. NAME ME ONE TIME!!!
Oh that’s right. You can’t. You’re just a shrill, partisan hack who will say anything against anyone who leans to the right, the facts don’t matter.
Do you actually believe the b.s. you spew on here? Is your mind really that warped? Psychiatry might be a good option for you. Or a lobotomy.
April 7, 2009 at 8:43 am
Art, I was referring to smh’s stupid statement.
Terance, thinks for injecting your two cents. I guess all Christians are violent, mass-murderers.
McVeigh was a NUT. HE is to blame. Not Rush Limbaugh. Not the church he went to. Not anyone else.
You people are beyond ridiculous.
April 7, 2009 at 8:51 am
And again, point to a time when Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. encouraged violence against anyone. NAME ME ONE TIME!!!
You don’t find it at all ‘inciteful’ that Beck was on Fox implying that the government was constructing death camps to kill Americans?
April 7, 2009 at 8:54 am
>Terance, thinks for injecting your two cents. I guess all Christians are violent, mass-murderers.
No, actually some of them like to have their way with little children. But, of course that isn’t the majority either, eh?
April 7, 2009 at 9:01 am
BR, I’ll apologize to you for your incorrect perception that I was saying you (or anyone else on this board) was inciting violence against liberals and other groups when you admit the leaders of your movement actually have incited violence against the groups previously mentioned above. Thought so.
It will take me about five minutes to find multiple cases of Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity or other conservative leaders inciting violence against liberals. Care to back down from that claim?
I also notice how you couldn”t find an example of a “left-wing loon” with Michael Moore & Al Franken books in his/her house that went out and killed a bunch of cons.
I think Arthur’s statement here is spot-on:
“I would go so far as to say, if there were no incidents in the last eight years of a lefty-loon going off on a shooting rampage, THERE NEVER WILL BE.”
I also notice how you didn’t respond to any of our arguments, you decided to go on and on about how I was personally accusing you of something.
Nice deflection. Too bad it didn’t work.
April 7, 2009 at 9:04 am
Is your mind really that warped? Psychiatry might be a good option for you. Or a lobotomy.
This, by the way, is a good example of the kind of thing I’m talking about. Those who don’t agree with you are ‘warped’ and need a lobotomy. I guess it’s passe to call people ‘traitors’ and ‘unAmerican’.
Since you ignored my request that you find me a loony-left mass murderer, let’s try it this way. You say “McVeigh was a NUT. HE is to blame. Not Rush Limbaugh. Not the church he went to. Not anyone else.”
It is your contention that people are solely to blame for their actions, that no one else contributes to their decision to go berserk and shoot up a mall, school, church, or whatever. If this were true, and mental illness obviously knows no party affilliation, these kinds of killers ought to be randomly distributed across the political spectrum.
So why can’t you find me ONE example of a crazed shooter who subscribed to liberal beliefs?
April 7, 2009 at 9:05 am
Art, is it inciteful when lefties say Bush/Cheney were behind 9/11?
If someone attempted to kill Bush, are we going to blame Alex Jones?
How many so-called “inciteful” things did Olbermann, Moore, Al Franken, Pelosi, Reid, Al Gore, etc. say about Bush over the last 8 years?
Bush was blamed for 9/11, Katrina, global warming, creating a false war for political gain, blah, blah, blah.
Keith Olbermann railed against how evil Bush and all Republicans were every night. He compared them to Hitler, the KKK and said FOX was worse than Al Qaeda.
Now, if someone decided to kill a Republican or FNC employee because of something Olbermann said, is that Olbermann’s fault???
NO. IT’S THE NUTJOB WHO DID THE KILLING.
Terance, anyone who abuses children should rot in hell. They are NOT a Christian. But it’s nice that you not only paint all Christians as murderers, but child molesters too. You have serious issues.
April 7, 2009 at 9:12 am
Now, if someone decided to kill a Republican or FNC employee because of something Olbermann said, is that Olbermann’s fault???
NO. IT’S THE NUTJOB WHO DID THE KILLING.
So… all the nutjobs are on the right, is what you’re saying.
April 7, 2009 at 9:20 am
BigRed, not once did I say the actions of “some” represents an entire religion. However, when someone practices or identifies with a religion and commits a heinous crime.. That makes ‘em a “warrior” in my book.
Seriously, aren’t you tired of getting verbally spanked on this blog? It seems someone is always laying the “smack down” in your direction.
April 7, 2009 at 9:22 am
The best part, Terance, is they’re all out searching wikipedia now for some leftwing mass murderer. Should keep them occupied for a while. Who knows? maybe they’ll learn something.
April 7, 2009 at 9:31 am
Bush was blamed for 9/11, Katrina, global warming, creating a false war for political gain, blah, blah, blah.
With the possible exception of 9/11, which Bush simply ignored warning signs of, Bush is GUILTY of all of the above. So who on the left called for his assassination? That’s right – nobody. And yet, Ann Coulter is quite famous for saying that the only decision to make vis a vis Bill Clinton was ‘impeachment or assassination’.
April 7, 2009 at 10:16 am
“So… all the nutjobs are on the right, is what you’re saying.”
Given some of the comments on here today, I would say all evidence to the contrary.
There’s no such thing as “right wing” or “left wing” mass murderer. There are just mass murderers. People who are disturbed. Politics has NOTHING to do with it.
Terance, the only person you’ve “smacked down” is yourself.
Art, who on the right called for anyone’s assassination, other than Ann Coulter, who I will NOT defend and no one takes seriously.
I notice you two have no answers to my questions, so I’ll ask again.
If someone decided to kill a Republican because of something Olbermann said, is it Olbermann’s fault?????
That’s what you’re accusing Beck, Hannity, etc. of.
At what point does your hypocrisy end?
April 7, 2009 at 10:45 am
“The best part, Terance, is they’re all out searching wikipedia now for some leftwing mass murderer. Should keep them occupied for a while. Who knows? maybe they’ll learn something.”
Ha. The thing is they don’t trust Wikipedia. It’s liberal and evil. The more con-friendly Conservipedia maybe.
April 7, 2009 at 10:47 am
Oh, and as for “crazed shooters” or killers on the left, there are plenty. It’s IRRELEVANT, but it’s also a long list.
April 7, 2009 at 10:54 am
“Art, who on the right called for anyone’s assassination, other than Ann Coulter, who I will NOT defend and no one takes seriously.”
Ah, of course no one takes her seriously. That’s why she was a major speaker at CPAC. If no one took her seriously, she wouldn’t be there. You’re so full of it.
April 7, 2009 at 10:57 am
Rush Limbaugh: “I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for.”
April 7, 2009 at 11:04 am
Senator Phil Gramm: “We’re going to keep building the party until we’re hunting Democrats with dogs.”
April 7, 2009 at 11:05 am
Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him, censure him, assassinate him.”
April 7, 2009 at 11:06 am
If someone decided to kill a Republican because of something Olbermann said, is it Olbermann’s fault?????
That’s what you’re accusing Beck, Hannity, etc. of.
If someone decides to go out and slay a bunch of people because of his hatred of conservatives, and when cops search his home they find a shrine to Olbermann and Maddow and copies of all of Al Franken’s books, and lunatic postings he wrote on DKos, you bet there’d be some soul-searching on the left.
But the right? noooooo, nothing to do with us, uh-uh.
Do you find it at all peculiar that Glenn Beck is only NOW walking back his concentration camp hysteria? (And the best part? on the far-right sites this is proof, PROOF that Glenn was gotten to by the New World Order.)
For that matter, where’s the left-wing analog to Stormfront? If both sides are equally vile, there has to be one out there somewhere, right?
April 7, 2009 at 11:06 am
Ann Coulter: “We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too.”
Ann Coulter: “My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building.”
Bill O’Reilly: “All those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains.”
Glenn Beck said he was “thinking about killing Michael Moore” and pondered whether “I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it,” before concluding: “No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out — is this wrong?”
April 7, 2009 at 11:06 am
Oh, and as for “crazed shooters” or killers on the left, there are plenty. It’s IRRELEVANT, but it’s also a long list.
and all I’m asking for is ONE.
April 7, 2009 at 11:09 am
Pathetic, smh. You know damn well these people were not talking literally.
Your argument is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.
TV personalities didn’t kill these people. THE SHOOTERS DID.
What part of that do you not understand?
Your boy Olbermann says “Bush murdered” innocent Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.
Will you come on here and say he’s guilty the next time some nut tries to assassinate him? NO, you won’t. Because you’re an enormous hypocrite.
April 7, 2009 at 11:09 am
One, Red. Just one.
April 7, 2009 at 11:11 am
TV personalities didn’t kill these people. THE SHOOTERS DID.
The rightwing ranters led them to believe they were doing Good Works. Tim McVeigh believed that after he bombed the Murrah Building, the oppressed majority would rise up and overthrow the federal government. Because he ONLY operated in an echo-chamber of right-wing paranoia.
April 7, 2009 at 11:19 am
BECAUSE HE WAS INSANE!!!!
April 7, 2009 at 11:21 am
BECAUSE HE WAS INSANE!!!!
Getting a little edgy there, aren’t you, Red?
April 7, 2009 at 11:24 am
That’s what happens when you have to deal with mental midgets.
April 7, 2009 at 11:32 am
Once again, Red, it’s simple. IF as you claim, political extremism is irrelevant to the probability that a person will turn into a domestic terrorist, all you have to do is find one counterexample of a leftist kook who hated/feared conservatives who then went out and killed a bunch of strangers. American, in the past fifty years.
If you can’t find one, then you either have to believe that the extreme right DRAWS insane people to it, or something about the extreme right turns people insane. OR that these nuts aren’t insane in the traditional sense but are operating in an environment (the extreme right, or reichwing) in which their actions make a sick kind of sense.
After all, if you REALLY believed the federal government was setting up gas chambers to dispose of a large number of people, what would YOU do?
April 7, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Ok art. Again, it’s irrelevant, because Glenn Beck didn’t drive this idiot to kill the cops. Lunatics are lunatics.
The guy just lost his job, got into an argument with his mom & she threatened to kick him out. She then called the cops. When they showed up, he killed them.
DO YOU BLAME HIS MOM FOR THE KILLING??? HOW ABOUT THE BOSS THAT FIRED HIM??? Of course not, because they’re not well known conservatives, so it doesn’t fit into your storyline.
Lefty killers:
Mumia Abu-Jamal (your poster boy)
The Unabomber (remember him???–killed 3, injured 16)
Lee Harvey Oswald (far, far left)–killed the President & a cop
Black Panther Party
The Weathermen
Numerous acts of domestic terrorism from animals right & other leftie groups
Now, who do we blame for these???? I’ve got an idea. How about THE PEOPLE THAT COMMITTED THE CRIMES!!!!
April 7, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Black Panthers – Militant black separatist group; NOT liberal but the equivalent of the white supremist groups such as Christian Identity. This includes Mumia Abu-Jamal
Unabomber – Luddite Libertarian anarchist, more likely to be a Ron Paul supporter than a fan of anyone on the left.
The Weathermen? KILLED NO ONE.
Animal rights groups, I’m unfamiliar with – you’re going to have to clue me in on their body count.
The guy just lost his job, got into an argument with his mom & she threatened to kick him out. She then called the cops. When they showed up, he killed them.
What happens when most people lose their jobs and then get in an argument with their moms? Do they typically GET THEIR AK47 and put on their BULLETPROOF VESTS? No, this is behavior usually associated with people who think the country is being taken over by the New World Order and they’re going to be sent to the gas chamber if they don’t fight back.
April 7, 2009 at 1:02 pm
As usual, you’re wrong.
–The Black Panthers were founded as a socialist organization.
–The Unabomber railed against the left as a government controlling entity, but his anti-technology rants are very much in line with the tree hugging mentality of many of the left.
The Weathermen–think again. They killed THREE people and injured countless numbers, not only with their bombs, but with riots.
Animal rights groups–firebombed the houses of scientists. Attempted murder.
Art, again….. their politics are not the point. THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE ACTS ARE RESPONSIBLE, AND THEM ALONE.
It’s irrelevant.
You also didn’t answer my question. If someone watched an Olbermann rant against George Bush, and then decided to kill some Republicans, is Olbermann to blame???
April 7, 2009 at 1:25 pm
The three people ‘killed’ by the weathermen were… weathermen who died in an explosion. The weathermen only targeted property and not people.
his anti-technology rants are very much in line with the tree hugging mentality of many of the left.
Bullshyte. Simple total non sequitor nonsense.
–The Black Panthers were founded as a socialist organization.
Black nationalism and black racism are not ‘liberal’ values.
You also didn’t answer my question. If someone watched an Olbermann rant against George Bush, and then decided to kill some Republicans, is Olbermann to blame???
If this happened, you would see a lot of people toning down their rhetoric. But it won’t for the following reasons:
the extreme of the left do NOT hatemonger against entire classes of people. Olbermann and his ilk reserve their bile for the people who actually implement things they disagree with. Al Franken calls Rush Limbaugh a big fat idiot, Olbermann declares Bill O’Reilly Worst Person in the Universe – Ann Coulter calls ALL LIBERALS traitors, and Rush Limbaugh suggests we don’t kill them ALL, just most of them. Do you honestly think these two sets of statements are equivalent?
The vilifying of a large subset of the population by another subset of the population is classic mind control techniques. You can turn a very large portion of mankind into a lynch mob if you play them right – authoritarian figures have known and exploited this for years.
But here’s the deal – you can only use fear and hate to control authoritarian follower personality types, which makes up about a quarter of the population. And not surprisingly, most authoritarian follower personality types are conservative.
April 7, 2009 at 1:27 pm
And if the statements of, say, Glenn Beck were not in any way responsible for what some crazy nut believes, why is Beck now walking away from his alarmist rantings as fast as he can?
April 7, 2009 at 1:46 pm
THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE ACTS ARE RESPONSIBLE, AND THEM ALONE.
I’m all for people taking ultimate responsibility for their actions.
For instance, is Jodie Foster responsible for Hinckley thinking he could impress her by shooting a president? No, because she never said or did anything to lead anyone to believe this was a route to her favor.
If some nutcase shoots up a bunch of liberals to impress Rush Limbaugh? when Limbaugh is on record suggesting that you shouldn’t shoot ALL the liberals, just MOST of them? Limbaugh needs to accept responsibility for putting the idea in a crazy person’s head that he would approve of killing liberals, because THAT’S WHAT HE SAID.
April 7, 2009 at 2:01 pm
That’s absolute drivel, and you know that it is.
Glenn Beck went on the air PROVING the FEMA conspiracy theory was b.s.
He is, in no way, shape or form, responsible for some psycho deciding to kill some cops who were called to the house by the guy’s mother.
He has compared Republicans and FNC to Nazis, the KKK, said they’re worse than Al Qaeda, accused Bush of killing hundreds of thousands of innocents, inventing a war for oil, called him a war criminaland on and on and on.
None of this has any basis in fact and could be described as inciting hate.
These incidents are a little worse than calling O’Reilly the “worst person in the world”‘ every single night.
But that doesn’t make Olbermann responsible if someone actually believes his drivel and decides to kill Republicans because of it.
Just like no one is responsible for McVeigh, the Pittsburgh shootings, etc. EXCEPT FOR THE KILLERS. Period.
April 7, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Glenn Beck went on the air PROVING the FEMA conspiracy theory was b.s.
AFTER he spent weeks claiming he COULDN’T disprove it.
April 7, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Google ‘glenn beck grand theft morality’, and watch Glenn Beck make the claim that playing Grand Theft Auto turns people into killers. What about personal responsibility?
April 7, 2009 at 2:58 pm
One last time. There’s one person responsible for pulling a trigger.
It’s not the gun manufacturer, the store manager, the NRA, a TV commentator, the boss who fired you, the government, a computer game, your significant other or the kid who picked on you in third grade.
It’s the person who pulled the trigger. Period.
April 7, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I get that you’re big on personal responsibility, Red. I know it’s a Big Conservative Value.
Thought problem. If parents don’t discipline their kid and he turns into a rude, thoughtless and selfish toddler, is it the four-year-old kid’s fault? or the parents’ fault?
If you say, like most people would, that it’s the parents’ fault, at once point does it become the kid’s fault? when he reaches the magical age of eighteen? sooner? later?
April 7, 2009 at 3:41 pm
I guess Spud hasn’t seen this thread, eh? A little violent for me.
April 7, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Everyone has to blow off some steam. Nobody’s going to change anyone’s mind since its ideological. Plenty of loons on both sides. Plenty of inciters on both sides. It’s all just a bunch of noise to me.
April 7, 2009 at 4:09 pm
“Plenty of inciters on both sides.”
There is that false equivocation again. I have been asking BR to provide quotes or examples of those in power or those that have powerful platforms on the left who are saying things that are equivalent to the quotes above from Coulter, Limbaugh and Beck. They breed paranoia and incite hatred towards liberals (and others). This leads to an unstable person killing three cops because he thinks Obama is coming to take his guns. Where did he hear that? How did he come about this false knowledge?
April 7, 2009 at 7:56 pm
smh, how many freaking times do I have to say something before it sinks in????
Olbermann spews hate toward all things conservative EVERY NIGHT!
When someone plots to kill Bush, do you blame Olbermann? Of course not.
Because you’re a hypocrite.
FOR THE FINAL, F’N TIME…..THE SHOOTER, AND NO ONE ELSE, IS RESPONSIBLE!!!
Art, you bring up a good point about kids & parents. The parents do have to take a responsibility too. I don’t think there is an “age limit” though of when the kid is responsible.
There are child murderers that deserve to be locked away for a long time, if not life. Lionel Tate was one. I think he was 12 or so when he murdered that little girl.
April 7, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Art, you bring up a good point about kids & parents. The parents do have to take a responsibility too. I don’t think there is an “age limit” though of when the kid is responsible.
Then you admit that the environment one lives in has SOME influence on one’s attitudes?
Your point seems to be that far-right hate talk can have no influence on someone’s decisions. But taking that to its logical conclusion, talk of any kind can have no influence on what someone decides to do. The teachings of Jesus or Gandhi, or the rantings of Hitler or Pol Pot, had no affect on their audience? Why does Rush Limbaugh talk on air for hours a day, if not to convince people of something?
And whether you are willing to admit it or not, there are qualitative differences between the kind of vitriol spewed by the extremes of left and right. I have NEVER heard a left-wing nut suggest that conservatives ought to be rounded up and killed. Yet it’s a JOKE to Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh. Why are there no left-wing analogs to Stormfront?
April 7, 2009 at 9:29 pm
BigRed is more or less right about Olbermann. And SMH…I’ve been on Democratic Underground enough times to know that the hate and vile on the right from Free Republic does have an equal on the left.
I have been asking BR to provide quotes or examples of those in power or those that have powerful platforms on the left who are saying things that are equivalent to the quotes above from Coulter, Limbaugh and Beck.
That’s sort of a BS argument in my eyes because nobody on the Left comes close to having the powerful platform of a Beck, Limbaugh or a Coulter. But that doesn’t mean that just because there aren’t lefties with as powerful a platform that there aren’t loony lefties who scream bloody murder and incite stuff. Because there are.
April 7, 2009 at 10:08 pm
But that doesn’t mean that just because there aren’t lefties with as powerful a platform that there aren’t loony lefties who scream bloody murder and incite stuff. Because there are.
then I repeat – where are the mad killers inspired by them?
April 8, 2009 at 5:09 am
These things are cyclical. In the 80s and 90s it was the right wing militias. In the 60s and 70s it was left para-military groups. You can’t look at this from a short term perspective.
April 8, 2009 at 6:40 am
Art, of course one’s environment, or the words of someone else, can have an impact on them.
But you can’t sit here and compare Pol Pot & Hitler to Glenn Beck.
Is Beck ordering people to go kill cops? NO. If he were, he would be yanked off the air, and you MIGHT, have a case against him if he did such a thing. But he didn’t. Nor has Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.
And the ultimately responsibility would STILL LIE WITH THE PERSON DOING THE KILLING.
And for a so-called “journalist”, which Shyster tries to be but isn’t, to try to lay the blame for these killings on Beck or Limbaugh is beyond disgusting.
So your entire argument is a complete house of cards.
April 8, 2009 at 7:24 am
And for a so-called “journalist”, which Shyster tries to be but isn’t, to try to lay the blame for these killings on Beck or Limbaugh is beyond disgusting.
Just to be clear, I’m NOT claiming people who shoot up a bunch of people are innocent pawns of outside forces. I AM saying that the milieu in which they live has SOME influence on them (and on us all) and that EVERYONE has some responsibility for that environment.
Which is, fwiw, a fairly ‘conservative’ point of view. After all, LIBERALS aren’t the ones all up in arms about song lyrics and the content of video games.
These things are cyclical. In the 80s and 90s it was the right wing militias. In the 60s and 70s it was left para-military groups.
I’m not saying it’s not cyclic, but we’re certainly seeing an upswing in ‘chatter’ on the right very similar to the kind of talk that was prevalent before OKC. Crazy talk is moving from the fringe of middle-of-the-night radio to the MSM. It is irresponsible to play with the fears of crazy people for your own political or arbitron advantage.
April 8, 2009 at 8:00 am
The histrionic crap from radio/cable heads is a little out of line sometimes, but the same crap from elected officials is what worries me. Michelle Bachman talking about being “armed and dangerous” for your country, and claiming kids will be in “re-education camps”, is a problem.
April 8, 2009 at 8:06 am
Michelle Bachman talking about being “armed and dangerous” for your country, and claiming kids will be in “re-education camps”, is a problem.
What’s sad is, I’m pretty sure she believes what she’s saying. Remember Helen Chenoweth?
April 8, 2009 at 11:00 am
Bachman is a loon, which seems to be the prerequisite for elected officials in Minnesota.
April 8, 2009 at 12:13 pm
“Bachman is a loon, which seems to be the prerequisite for elected officials in Minnesota.”
This is a rare point of agreement. Thankfully, they’re replacing one of their prime loons with Al Franken.
FINALLY, the right is starting to concede that Franken did actually win this thing AND that the election recount was not “unfair”. Too bad, it only took them four months.
Scott Johnson at nro.com and powerline has said as much.
April 8, 2009 at 12:59 pm
No, Franken is included in the prerequisite.
April 8, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Norm Coleman should take it like a man and concede…just like he advised Al Franken to do immediately after the vote.