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85 Responses to “Health Care Vote Coverage: Your Reactions…”
I am stunned that MSNBC has broken away from its weekend Lock-up Block to cover the congressional debate on Healthcare reform. That’s gonna force the trailer-trash set to watch the “Cops Weekend Marathon” or Fox and Friends.
There’s going to be a blood bath in the 2010 midterm elections. The Republicans are going to regain both houses in 2010 and 2012, and Obama basically sealed his Presidency as a 1 term President. They’re not listening to us when we told Congress to start all over and now they will hear from us soon…
Stupak caved, what a surprise. Obama promised him an executive order, AFTER the vote and he fell for it. Even if he does issue an order, he can revoke it at any time. Time to roll up the sleeves and get to work for 2010. These jokers have got to go!
I think Congressmen Paul Ryan and Anthony Weiner should take it on the road. These are two really intelligent proponents of their causes. Hopefully they are the future of American politics and their respective parties.
Why the does MSNBC have Ed Schultz co-anchoring coverage and why is Chris Matthews MIA?
Lawrence O’Donnell has specifically referenced Matthews observations about what a role abortion would play in the debate over health care reform, yet the man who made those now prescient observations is nowhere to be found.
Where is Hannity? Where is Beck? Where is O’Reilly?
It’s Sunday.
Bill O’Reilly stated Thursday? He was going to be working Sunday. So far I have seen Greata and Cavuto.
When this Bill passes I am going to make a prediction that Glenn Beck sees a ratings spike. I think he will have more folks tuning in to see what he has to say.
Allah:
As I write this, Stupak’s congressional opponent has picked up two thousand fans on Facebook in about two hours. Ten thousand by tomorrow, I’ll bet.
Why is Chris Matthews missing?
I thought I heard Michael Smerconish say on Friday when in for Chris that his son was getting married this weekend. Hope that helps.
Thank you for that info, Laree. We’ll be sending a large check to Dan Benishek, and will be encouraging many likeminded friends and family to do the same.
Chris Matthews couldn’t be kept from this thing for anything short of a wedding or a funeral. Maybe a relative on their deathbed. Maybe. Even then, short of a parent..perhaps a satellite hookup could be arranged..
Biggest political night of the year; it’s raining hard, so my satellite is flaking out. I get the thread-updates in my email, so let me know when the vote hits, please thank you.
-On The Road with Ryan and Weiner-
It is refreshing to see members of Congress who are able to debate without the talking points, and sometimes even throwing in, “He does have a point and…”
-Stupak-
Weasel.
-Jon Scott & Jane Skinner-
Absent today? Does that make them second string? Anybody care?
-Satellite-
Sucks. Went back to cable for that very reason. Plus I missed my local government channel.
re Dan Benishek: He probably won’t get past the primary where he faces two more articulate tea party types; Don Hooper & Linda Goldthrope. A quick check of his web page (not the face book site) tells me he is not ready for prime time.
BTW doesn’t Benishek look a lot like Michael Moore.
As well Bart Stupak will face his own well financed primary challenger and may not get to November. The left is pretty pi**ed at him at the moment and money is pouring in to his opponent.
Re rain on satellite dish: A trick I did to mine was to put a 1 quart plastic pop bottle slit lengthwise and with the bottom cut off over the nose cone. It keeps most rain and snow off the cone and doesn’t interfere with the signal. Just a thought.
I’ve been off the grid for a couple days. Shuster mentioned “Tea Partiers” spitting on a Congressman and using the N-word yesterday. Can anyone enlighten me on this subject?
Reports on CNN & FNC were that a small number of protesters were shouting insults as members of Congress passed. Rep. Shiela Jackson Lee (D-TX) said somebody asked her why she had her braids so tight. Tea Party and non-Tea Party demonstration organisers quickly condemned those rude comments – apparently some of those demonstrating against the health care bill were not with the Tea Party, but don’t know exactly who the rude morons were.
Wait, wait…where did ‘deem and pass’ go? Geez, I take a two-day newsbreak and the Big Bad Demon Pass that even Chris Mathews hated disappears without a trace.
Wait, wait…you’re telling me the Dems dropped a stupid tactic, and managed to keep themselves together long enough to most likely pass a bill tonight? The Democratic Party?
Have been watching cspan most of the day. our reps are pretty entertaining. (and Pitt lost in bball.) Also, switching between fox and cnn (no msnbc at work).
I think Deem & Pass was a diversion to keep Republicans busy for a few days until the vote count was settled. They spent all their time talking about the process and not the bill. Wasted a lot of time.
Boehner’s speech was LOL funny. What was he thinking with that no we can’t stuff; just Republicans would answer?
Pelosi is on now and in a word dull. Probably one of the worst public speakers in the House. On to the vote.
Why would they bother with that? The Repubs are and have been on the sidelines throughout this entire thing. The debate that’s been going on has been entirely between Dems.
Was Speaker Pelosi correct when she said tonight that the legislation passed tonight included amendments offered by Republicans? Sure sounded like that is what she said.
I’ll take it, until the opposition comes up with a better plan. They could start by coming up with, um, something. They’ve spent the last year telling us how bad this idea is, but don’t provide an alternative beyond the status quo. The status quo aint working.
All I ever heard from them was tort reform and lower business taxes. Ain’t that the Republican answer to most everything? The Republicans, aka Wealth Preservationists think lowering taxes is the panacea for all that ills us. Actually it would, at best, be a placebo.
A sad note from the left: Ed Schultz screamed and hollered for single-payer..didn’t get it. Then he screamed and hollered for a public option..didn’t get it. Now he’s reduced to lauding that we finally got something done about discrimination against people with pre-existing conditions. I understand his reasoning for being happy that something got passed, but it’s not the heroic victory he was looking for. It’s a little pathetic to watch him act like it is.
Dr. BW is almost certain to join Al in retirement. She doesn’t need some government employee telling her how to practice medicine.
The Repubs have been trying to offer alternate plans, but the leftists in the Congress kept shutting them down and much of the MSM pretended that their ideas don’t exist and that the Repubs are just a big bunch of meanies who want poor people to suffer and die while the fat cats light cigars with $100 bills.
Besides much-needed drastic tort reform (such as taking malpractice claims out of the civil courts and into special boards, just like workers’ compensation), Republicans have also wanted to open up insurance markets across state lines. THAT is how you create the competition necessary to lower prices.
The Republican plans encompassed most of the major details you like except for single-payer, and did so while keeping the dysfunctional federal government pretty much out of our lives.
Putting aside right vs. left ways of looking at healthcare, the big problem with this one is that its cost is unsustainable. They’ve basically turned a delivery system that needed some leaks fixed into a toilet bowl that will get progressively more stinky until somebody finally flushes it.
I fail to see how this s****y health care system is “so far ahead of the rest of the world”. It works for people with money, or lucky enough to still have a job with good health care, or already on government support. The rest of those poor bastards are getting physicals in the ER if they’re “lucky” enough to get sick or hurt enough to get there.
Far ahead because of innovation and advances made possible through good old-fashioned American capitalism. The U.S. is far ahead in terms of testing equipment availability and speciality services. Our teaching hospitals are fabulous, even the ones in run-down cities. Europe has “world-class”, but they’re nothing like ours. We have better doctors and nurses in terms of both training and dedication. I have to compete for patients while in Europe they have trouble finding a good doc.
Most Americans who don’t have a job and/or can’t afford health insurance already qualify for government assistance. Some never bother to find out what is available to them, and they’re usually advised of what’s available by social workers once they do get into an ER for treatment. And it’s not true that they’re only treated in the nation’s ERs – I get people sent to me from the ER who have no money or insurance when the ER isn’t equipped to treat them.
Many of the uninsured are those who choose to spend their monies on something else. And why is it that comparable insurance is considerably less expensive in right-to-work states than in heavily unionised ones? That’s an argument favouring the Republican’s across-state-lines proposal. And why isn’t THAT – the one thing the constitution clearly does reserve for the federal government to determine- in this health care legislation?
It is true that the government assistance and Medicare/Medicaid programmes have far more limitations to what they will cover than do the private insurers. The health care bill will slowly expand that lack of coverage.
And why is it that comparable insurance is considerably less expensive in right-to-work states than in heavily unionised ones? That’s an argument favouring the Republican’s across-state-lines proposal. And why isn’t THAT – the one thing the constitution clearly does reserve for the federal government to determine- in this health care legislation?
Because the ultimate goal of this piece of garbage “reform” is to make it impossible for the insurance companies to function without losing money. They’ll keep “tweaking” and changing the legislation until they put the private insurance companies out of business and the government becomes the single payer. And then they’ll have accomplished their goal of bringing our cancer survival rates down to British levels.
Insurance companies out of business? God I hope so.
Your British cancer-survival-rate comment ignores an obvious fact. Everyone with cancer there is treated, while many here are not. A survival-rate graph can only include patients with the ability to access treatment.
But many are not treated promptly. There is far too much anecdotal evidence regarding the waiting period to be treated for cancer in Britain. Too many patients in Stage I getting to Stage II or even III before coming up toward the top of the waiting list.
MANY here with cancer go untreated? That’s a lie.
For one thing: It is often claimed that people have better access to preventive screenings in universal health care systems. But despite the large number of uninsured, cancer patients in the United States are most likely to be screened regularly, and once diagnosed, have the fastest access to treatment. For example, a Commonwealth Fund report showed that women in the United States were more likely to get a PAP test for cervical cancer every two years than women in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Great Britain, where health insurance is guaranteed by the government.
So yes, putting the admittedly flawed insurance companies out of business is a good idea, so that we can all hand over control over bodies to the government. The same government that has given us public housing, the IRS and the US Postal Service.
Yes, please do. Our system is about to get something resembling regulation, and more support for people who can’t afford it, and your side fought it every step of the way.
No. What we’re on track to get is the government having the final say over what we may and may not do to our bodies regarding our health.
Our side is very proud of doing what we could to fight nationalizing a large chunk of our economy and having government bureaucrats tell doctors how to practice medicine.
What’s going to happen is decision making about all medical care will be based on cost and “societal benefit,” not what’s best for each patient. That will lead to rationing, shortages and lower survival rates for curable diseases.
Healthcare: the competence of the Post Office combined with the compassion of the IRS and the quality of public housing.
The big thing lately with the post office is to hire part-time workers. They have to use their own cars and don’t get much in the way of benefits. I know several who’ve been part-time for ten years now, and not likely to ever get full-time status wherein they can begin earning retirement benefits.
-Public Health Care-
We used to have a public heath care system. They started disappearing when I was getting started, but many of you will remember them. They weren’t everywhere but every state had a fair number that were often called “(Whatever) County General Hospital”, and part of their charge was to provide healthcare for the area’s indigent population and were paid for through local taxes. This wasn’t just ER care, either, as these were very good hospitals with most of the medical specialities available. In exchange for admitting privileges, area docs would provide their service at reduced rates or even free when necessary. Some were lucky enough to be affiliated with medical schools and served as “teaching” hospitals, as well. The television series “ER” was based on one of these hospitals in Chicago. Yes, there are a few still around but they really aren’t the same.
They were certainly a burden on local governments, but no more so than were roads and bridges and water systems. Since this was about “health”, though, leaders in Congress thought it a good idea to help fund these important ventures federally. Even though opposed by many conservatives on both constitutional and fiscal grounds, the local governments thought the idea wonderful – the influx of monies were called a “Godsend” by some.
Whenever a government spends money on anything in a free-market economy, there are inevitable unintended consequences. While an interstate highway or other major project is being constructed, for example, the cost of labour in that local community naturally rises temporarily due to lower supply vs. demand. The same was true with the monies spent on the local healthcare systems and operation costs began rising. Pressure was placed on the feds to increase expenditures which, in turn, caused supply and demand to be further out of balance with the rest of the local economies. Local governments could barely afford the expense of these hospitals just at the time when the federal government began calling for cost containment. So these hospitals started failing and were closed or sold. Catholic hospitals were also providing services for the indigent all this time but they, too, had fallen victim to the enticement of federal monies.
Worth mentioning because it’s part of the equation, throughout this time we saw an increase in the number of third party-paid insurance policies. I’m sure it seemed a good idea at the time, but in retrospect having health insurance purchased by or through employers was downright stupid. Nobody cares what somebody else pays. When you’re really sick do you care all that much whether the exam and treatment costs your insurance carrier 350 bucks instead of only 50?
Today, hospitals have been gobbled up by big business – either charitable or for-profit conglomerates. The problem with the health care plan is that it’s backwards. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, just like Amtrak and the Postal Service, are fiscal failures and examples of what must eventually happen with health care. But unlike the old days of “County General”, there’s no where to go when the system inevitably fails due to the influx of monies borrowed from Communist China.
Joe, we were talking about how dysfunctional the Post Office is, not the good benes that they get from our pockets.
A few times just last year, the Post Office has lost our mail. One package from overseas cleared customs and made it to New York City, but then disappeared into the ether. Another was sent from Amazon and the supervisor at our local P.O. actually claimed that it disappeared because Amazon didn’t use a more expensive delivery option! Turns out that it went to a building down the street and was returned to us (opened!) a few days later.
When we’ve had to mail packages and certified letters, we often wait on long lines for very long periods of time and deal with surly clerks who don’t seem to be emotionally stable.
Also, a long time ago, health insurance should never have gone from covering major events to covering every belch and itch. Auto insurance covers major issues, not oil changes and new wiper blades.
A difference of experience, BW. I’ve had mostly good experiences with shipping and receiving through the USPS. Considering the sheer volume they coordinate every day, I consider their success rate nothing short of miraculous.
That’s as much our fault as it is anyone else’s, Dr. BW. Our colleagues who practised before us were instrumental in setting up the system in which everyone now expects to see a physician for every little twitch or tingle out of fear that it might be a symptom of an impending MI or an autoimmune disease. Today it’s avoided out of a fear of malpractice lawsuits, but hospitals and clinics could easily develop a financially sound profit centre using mostly nurses and PAs for a $25 cash per issue, 15 minute exam. Your burps and itches would be sent home happily and those needing further work-ups would get a referral to see an insurance-covered doc.
-ER is the most expensive care-
That’s such a crock. Sure, when the unit’s jam-packed and two patients are crashing, that sniffle-cough in the waiting area is a bother – but they’re in the waiting area… waiting. Much of the time there’s not a whole lot going on. The staff gets paid and the equipment remains in place whether that sniffle shows up or not. If you have to be there anyway for life-threatening emergencies that show up, if you’re not on overtime, and no other staff needs to be called in then it doesn’t cost anything extra besides the materials & test kits used to treat the sniffle kid, the drunk who busted his nose, or the throwing-up teenager who’s about to be told she’s pregnant.
In some cases, it’s actually less expensive to treat the indigent patient for free than it is to treat the Medicare patient for the reimbursement. Government Red Duct Tape.
March 21, 2010 at 11:33 am
I am stunned that MSNBC has broken away from its weekend Lock-up Block to cover the congressional debate on Healthcare reform. That’s gonna force the trailer-trash set to watch the “Cops Weekend Marathon” or Fox and Friends.
March 21, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Anyone believe for a second that Stupak won’t fold, and bring his supposed ‘pro-life’ cohorts with him? Othello, stage left..
March 21, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Watching Stupak coverage right now on Cavuto
March 21, 2010 at 12:12 pm
There’s going to be a blood bath in the 2010 midterm elections. The Republicans are going to regain both houses in 2010 and 2012, and Obama basically sealed his Presidency as a 1 term President. They’re not listening to us when we told Congress to start all over and now they will hear from us soon…
March 21, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Stupak caved, what a surprise. Obama promised him an executive order, AFTER the vote and he fell for it. Even if he does issue an order, he can revoke it at any time. Time to roll up the sleeves and get to work for 2010. These jokers have got to go!
March 21, 2010 at 12:38 pm
I think Congressmen Paul Ryan and Anthony Weiner should take it on the road. These are two really intelligent proponents of their causes. Hopefully they are the future of American politics and their respective parties.
March 21, 2010 at 12:43 pm
This bill already has law suits being lined up to challenge it by 37 or 38 states. The camel is doing it’s best to get in the tent
March 21, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Fox News put up a copy of the executive order on their website.
http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/03/21/obama-executive-order-on-abortion-funding/
March 21, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Why the does MSNBC have Ed Schultz co-anchoring coverage and why is Chris Matthews MIA?
Lawrence O’Donnell has specifically referenced Matthews observations about what a role abortion would play in the debate over health care reform, yet the man who made those now prescient observations is nowhere to be found.
March 21, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Where is Hannity? Where is Beck? Where is O’Reilly?
It’s Sunday.
March 21, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Greta is on for 5pm since Geraldo is on at 10pm.
Bill is on at 8pm with Hannity at 9pm.
FBN is live now with Neil hosting from DC.
March 21, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Why the does MSNBC have Ed Schultz co-anchoring coverage and why is Chris Matthews MIA?
Chris Matthews son got married yesterday. Family always comes first & Chris must be a very proud father.
March 21, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Zone: I love your rational and understated views of how events will play out over the next few years.
March 21, 2010 at 2:48 pm
ndhapple Says:
March 21, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Why the does MSNBC have Ed Schultz co-anchoring coverage and why is Chris Matthews MIA?
I don’t know but my cable menu stated that “Witness To Jonestown” is what they pre empted for live coverage.
March 21, 2010 at 2:50 pm
tripton Says:
March 21, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Where is Hannity? Where is Beck? Where is O’Reilly?
It’s Sunday.
Bill O’Reilly stated Thursday? He was going to be working Sunday. So far I have seen Greata and Cavuto.
When this Bill passes I am going to make a prediction that Glenn Beck sees a ratings spike. I think he will have more folks tuning in to see what he has to say.
March 21, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Allah on Hot Air stated that since Stupak’s announcement his opponent’s Facebook page has picked up 2,000 members.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=287806148754
Allah:
As I write this, Stupak’s congressional opponent has picked up two thousand fans on Facebook in about two hours. Ten thousand by tomorrow, I’ll bet.
March 21, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Why is Chris Matthews missing?
I thought I heard Michael Smerconish say on Friday when in for Chris that his son was getting married this weekend. Hope that helps.
March 21, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Thank you for that info, Laree. We’ll be sending a large check to Dan Benishek, and will be encouraging many likeminded friends and family to do the same.
March 21, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Chris Matthews couldn’t be kept from this thing for anything short of a wedding or a funeral. Maybe a relative on their deathbed. Maybe. Even then, short of a parent..perhaps a satellite hookup could be arranged..
March 21, 2010 at 4:04 pm
It’s surprising that Matthews would pass up this opportunity to get another tingle up his leg.
March 21, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Biggest political night of the year; it’s raining hard, so my satellite is flaking out. I get the thread-updates in my email, so let me know when the vote hits, please thank you.
March 21, 2010 at 4:31 pm
-On The Road with Ryan and Weiner-
It is refreshing to see members of Congress who are able to debate without the talking points, and sometimes even throwing in, “He does have a point and…”
-Stupak-
Weasel.
-Jon Scott & Jane Skinner-
Absent today? Does that make them second string? Anybody care?
-Satellite-
Sucks. Went back to cable for that very reason. Plus I missed my local government channel.
March 21, 2010 at 4:34 pm
-Jon Scott-
Thank God he has the day off. I can live without The Smirk.
March 21, 2010 at 4:35 pm
I always like it when O’Reilly does it live. I’m not sure why, but I do.
March 21, 2010 at 4:36 pm
– satellite –
We found the one spot in the county that doesn’t get cable, and faces a valley where all the storms seem to come in. Aggravating.
March 21, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Good one, Corny. “We’ll do it live!”
March 21, 2010 at 4:49 pm
re Dan Benishek: He probably won’t get past the primary where he faces two more articulate tea party types; Don Hooper & Linda Goldthrope. A quick check of his web page (not the face book site) tells me he is not ready for prime time.
BTW doesn’t Benishek look a lot like Michael Moore.
As well Bart Stupak will face his own well financed primary challenger and may not get to November. The left is pretty pi**ed at him at the moment and money is pouring in to his opponent.
Re rain on satellite dish: A trick I did to mine was to put a 1 quart plastic pop bottle slit lengthwise and with the bottom cut off over the nose cone. It keeps most rain and snow off the cone and doesn’t interfere with the signal. Just a thought.
March 21, 2010 at 5:03 pm
CNBC is live as of 9pm ET.
March 21, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Maybe Skinner and Scott were off so that Shannon Bream could anchor for that timeslot. She’s in D.C. and much better situated to report on this stuff.
March 21, 2010 at 5:09 pm
I’ve been off the grid for a couple days. Shuster mentioned “Tea Partiers” spitting on a Congressman and using the N-word yesterday. Can anyone enlighten me on this subject?
March 21, 2010 at 5:27 pm
joe, you mean Shuster passed up an opportunity to use the term “teabagger?”
March 21, 2010 at 5:30 pm
^Never mind, I’m caught up. Depressing.
March 21, 2010 at 5:32 pm
-Spitting and N-word-
Reports on CNN & FNC were that a small number of protesters were shouting insults as members of Congress passed. Rep. Shiela Jackson Lee (D-TX) said somebody asked her why she had her braids so tight. Tea Party and non-Tea Party demonstration organisers quickly condemned those rude comments – apparently some of those demonstrating against the health care bill were not with the Tea Party, but don’t know exactly who the rude morons were.
March 21, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Perhaps even Shuster recognized the irony in criticizing the use of a derogatory term while using another one.
March 21, 2010 at 5:40 pm
Boehner is threatening to read the whole bill. Thank God I don’t have HD; I don’t know how long my TV could handle all that bronzer.
March 21, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Wait, wait…where did ‘deem and pass’ go? Geez, I take a two-day newsbreak and the Big Bad Demon Pass that even Chris Mathews hated disappears without a trace.
March 21, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Deem & Pass killed in committee Friday
March 21, 2010 at 5:53 pm
To elaborate, Dems figured:
A) Possibly unconstitutional.
B) In this instance it wasn’t fooling anybody, and they’d be rightly criticised for trying to pull a fast one.
March 21, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Deem and Pass existed to make reconciliation seem kosher by comparison. Although none of it makes sense at this point.
March 21, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Wait, wait…you’re telling me the Dems dropped a stupid tactic, and managed to keep themselves together long enough to most likely pass a bill tonight? The Democratic Party?
March 21, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Have been watching cspan most of the day. our reps are pretty entertaining. (and Pitt lost in bball.) Also, switching between fox and cnn (no msnbc at work).
March 21, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Yes, joe. The Dems did good.. For the right reason or not? You decide.
March 21, 2010 at 6:02 pm
-C-Span-
Did you catch Rep Waxman scratching his …ummm.. acorns? I so wish I had a screen grab of that!
March 21, 2010 at 6:04 pm
lol i missed that. i had to do a phone interview about prayer shawls for the paper.
March 21, 2010 at 6:07 pm
– prayer shawls –
Sounds like Waxman could have used one.
March 21, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Oh goodie, another ‘no’ speech from Boehner. Come up with your own plan, Bonehead.
March 21, 2010 at 6:10 pm
The House Dems know that the reconciliation won’t likely pass the senate unchanged.
March 21, 2010 at 6:11 pm
Where is Mathews? I can’t imagine him skipping this thing.
March 21, 2010 at 6:17 pm
Pelosi is speaking. Place your bets on how many minutes ’til someone shouts, “Liar!”
March 21, 2010 at 6:29 pm
I think Deem & Pass was a diversion to keep Republicans busy for a few days until the vote count was settled. They spent all their time talking about the process and not the bill. Wasted a lot of time.
Boehner’s speech was LOL funny. What was he thinking with that no we can’t stuff; just Republicans would answer?
Pelosi is on now and in a word dull. Probably one of the worst public speakers in the House. On to the vote.
March 21, 2010 at 6:43 pm
-Wasting Republican time-
Why would they bother with that? The Repubs are and have been on the sidelines throughout this entire thing. The debate that’s been going on has been entirely between Dems.
March 21, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Sad day. Time for me to start my career retirement process.
March 21, 2010 at 6:52 pm
For you viewers with crappy satellites…pass: 219-212.
March 21, 2010 at 6:52 pm
Was Speaker Pelosi correct when she said tonight that the legislation passed tonight included amendments offered by Republicans? Sure sounded like that is what she said.
March 21, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Oh, come on Al. Stop with the scare tactics. You know as well as the rest that this is all rainbows and lollipops. Get with the program.
March 21, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Al: Maybe you can join Rush when he moves to Costa Rica.
March 21, 2010 at 7:03 pm
-Costa Rica-
Not a bad idea. I could live like a king and provide medical care way above their usual standards… and I could do it for free.
March 21, 2010 at 7:04 pm
rainbows and lollipops
I’ll take it, until the opposition comes up with a better plan. They could start by coming up with, um, something. They’ve spent the last year telling us how bad this idea is, but don’t provide an alternative beyond the status quo. The status quo aint working.
March 21, 2010 at 7:07 pm
– better plan –
You’ve heard as much of what they say as I have. You choose to ignore it. Your problem. I’ll take nothing over this pile, in any case.
March 21, 2010 at 7:08 pm
All I ever heard from them was tort reform and lower business taxes. Ain’t that the Republican answer to most everything? The Republicans, aka Wealth Preservationists think lowering taxes is the panacea for all that ills us. Actually it would, at best, be a placebo.
March 21, 2010 at 7:12 pm
A sad note from the left: Ed Schultz screamed and hollered for single-payer..didn’t get it. Then he screamed and hollered for a public option..didn’t get it. Now he’s reduced to lauding that we finally got something done about discrimination against people with pre-existing conditions. I understand his reasoning for being happy that something got passed, but it’s not the heroic victory he was looking for. It’s a little pathetic to watch him act like it is.
March 21, 2010 at 7:31 pm
Dr. BW is almost certain to join Al in retirement. She doesn’t need some government employee telling her how to practice medicine.
The Repubs have been trying to offer alternate plans, but the leftists in the Congress kept shutting them down and much of the MSM pretended that their ideas don’t exist and that the Repubs are just a big bunch of meanies who want poor people to suffer and die while the fat cats light cigars with $100 bills.
Besides much-needed drastic tort reform (such as taking malpractice claims out of the civil courts and into special boards, just like workers’ compensation), Republicans have also wanted to open up insurance markets across state lines. THAT is how you create the competition necessary to lower prices.
March 21, 2010 at 7:32 pm
The Republican plans encompassed most of the major details you like except for single-payer, and did so while keeping the dysfunctional federal government pretty much out of our lives.
Putting aside right vs. left ways of looking at healthcare, the big problem with this one is that its cost is unsustainable. They’ve basically turned a delivery system that needed some leaks fixed into a toilet bowl that will get progressively more stinky until somebody finally flushes it.
March 21, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Uh oh, Geraldo is proposing that this might actually be a good thing. Somebody get him the memo..
March 21, 2010 at 8:02 pm
[...] Health Care Vote Coverage: Your Reactions… « Inside Cable News [...]
March 21, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Geraldo has little use for the “hows” and “whys” of the USA having been so far ahead of the rest of the world.
Canada’s going to hate this development.
March 21, 2010 at 8:31 pm
I fail to see how this s****y health care system is “so far ahead of the rest of the world”. It works for people with money, or lucky enough to still have a job with good health care, or already on government support. The rest of those poor bastards are getting physicals in the ER if they’re “lucky” enough to get sick or hurt enough to get there.
March 21, 2010 at 8:45 pm
[...] Health Care Vote Coverage: Your Reactions… « Inside Cable News [...]
March 21, 2010 at 9:19 pm
CNN Newsroom is on live at 1am ET. FNC is replaying the 10pm ET hour. MSNBC is replaying 11pm ET hour.
March 21, 2010 at 9:26 pm
-Fail to see-
Because you’ve chosen to be blind.
Far ahead because of innovation and advances made possible through good old-fashioned American capitalism. The U.S. is far ahead in terms of testing equipment availability and speciality services. Our teaching hospitals are fabulous, even the ones in run-down cities. Europe has “world-class”, but they’re nothing like ours. We have better doctors and nurses in terms of both training and dedication. I have to compete for patients while in Europe they have trouble finding a good doc.
Most Americans who don’t have a job and/or can’t afford health insurance already qualify for government assistance. Some never bother to find out what is available to them, and they’re usually advised of what’s available by social workers once they do get into an ER for treatment. And it’s not true that they’re only treated in the nation’s ERs – I get people sent to me from the ER who have no money or insurance when the ER isn’t equipped to treat them.
Many of the uninsured are those who choose to spend their monies on something else. And why is it that comparable insurance is considerably less expensive in right-to-work states than in heavily unionised ones? That’s an argument favouring the Republican’s across-state-lines proposal. And why isn’t THAT – the one thing the constitution clearly does reserve for the federal government to determine- in this health care legislation?
It is true that the government assistance and Medicare/Medicaid programmes have far more limitations to what they will cover than do the private insurers. The health care bill will slowly expand that lack of coverage.
March 21, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Health Care Vote Set to Expose the Myth of the ‘Pro-Life Democrat’
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20100321/pl_usnw/DC74083_1
March 22, 2010 at 6:17 am
And why is it that comparable insurance is considerably less expensive in right-to-work states than in heavily unionised ones? That’s an argument favouring the Republican’s across-state-lines proposal. And why isn’t THAT – the one thing the constitution clearly does reserve for the federal government to determine- in this health care legislation?
Because the ultimate goal of this piece of garbage “reform” is to make it impossible for the insurance companies to function without losing money. They’ll keep “tweaking” and changing the legislation until they put the private insurance companies out of business and the government becomes the single payer. And then they’ll have accomplished their goal of bringing our cancer survival rates down to British levels.
March 22, 2010 at 11:37 am
Insurance companies out of business? God I hope so.
Your British cancer-survival-rate comment ignores an obvious fact. Everyone with cancer there is treated, while many here are not. A survival-rate graph can only include patients with the ability to access treatment.
March 22, 2010 at 12:08 pm
But many are not treated promptly. There is far too much anecdotal evidence regarding the waiting period to be treated for cancer in Britain. Too many patients in Stage I getting to Stage II or even III before coming up toward the top of the waiting list.
MANY here with cancer go untreated? That’s a lie.
For one thing:
It is often claimed that people have better access to preventive screenings in universal health care systems. But despite the large number of uninsured, cancer patients in the United States are most likely to be screened regularly, and once diagnosed, have the fastest access to treatment. For example, a Commonwealth Fund report showed that women in the United States were more likely to get a PAP test for cervical cancer every two years than women in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Great Britain, where health insurance is guaranteed by the government.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596
So yes, putting the admittedly flawed insurance companies out of business is a good idea, so that we can all hand over control over bodies to the government. The same government that has given us public housing, the IRS and the US Postal Service.
March 22, 2010 at 12:10 pm
It’s hopeless, boog. Give it up.
March 22, 2010 at 1:00 pm
It’s hopeless, boog. Give it up.
Yes, please do. Our system is about to get something resembling regulation, and more support for people who can’t afford it, and your side fought it every step of the way.
March 22, 2010 at 3:31 pm
No. What we’re on track to get is the government having the final say over what we may and may not do to our bodies regarding our health.
Our side is very proud of doing what we could to fight nationalizing a large chunk of our economy and having government bureaucrats tell doctors how to practice medicine.
What’s going to happen is decision making about all medical care will be based on cost and “societal benefit,” not what’s best for each patient. That will lead to rationing, shortages and lower survival rates for curable diseases.
Healthcare: the competence of the Post Office combined with the compassion of the IRS and the quality of public housing.
March 22, 2010 at 3:45 pm
the competence of the Post Office.
Good pay, good health care, delivers the mail efficiently. Yeah, they suck.
March 22, 2010 at 4:52 pm
-Good Pay, good health care-
The big thing lately with the post office is to hire part-time workers. They have to use their own cars and don’t get much in the way of benefits. I know several who’ve been part-time for ten years now, and not likely to ever get full-time status wherein they can begin earning retirement benefits.
-Public Health Care-
We used to have a public heath care system. They started disappearing when I was getting started, but many of you will remember them. They weren’t everywhere but every state had a fair number that were often called “(Whatever) County General Hospital”, and part of their charge was to provide healthcare for the area’s indigent population and were paid for through local taxes. This wasn’t just ER care, either, as these were very good hospitals with most of the medical specialities available. In exchange for admitting privileges, area docs would provide their service at reduced rates or even free when necessary. Some were lucky enough to be affiliated with medical schools and served as “teaching” hospitals, as well. The television series “ER” was based on one of these hospitals in Chicago. Yes, there are a few still around but they really aren’t the same.
They were certainly a burden on local governments, but no more so than were roads and bridges and water systems. Since this was about “health”, though, leaders in Congress thought it a good idea to help fund these important ventures federally. Even though opposed by many conservatives on both constitutional and fiscal grounds, the local governments thought the idea wonderful – the influx of monies were called a “Godsend” by some.
Whenever a government spends money on anything in a free-market economy, there are inevitable unintended consequences. While an interstate highway or other major project is being constructed, for example, the cost of labour in that local community naturally rises temporarily due to lower supply vs. demand. The same was true with the monies spent on the local healthcare systems and operation costs began rising. Pressure was placed on the feds to increase expenditures which, in turn, caused supply and demand to be further out of balance with the rest of the local economies. Local governments could barely afford the expense of these hospitals just at the time when the federal government began calling for cost containment. So these hospitals started failing and were closed or sold. Catholic hospitals were also providing services for the indigent all this time but they, too, had fallen victim to the enticement of federal monies.
Worth mentioning because it’s part of the equation, throughout this time we saw an increase in the number of third party-paid insurance policies. I’m sure it seemed a good idea at the time, but in retrospect having health insurance purchased by or through employers was downright stupid. Nobody cares what somebody else pays. When you’re really sick do you care all that much whether the exam and treatment costs your insurance carrier 350 bucks instead of only 50?
Today, hospitals have been gobbled up by big business – either charitable or for-profit conglomerates. The problem with the health care plan is that it’s backwards. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, just like Amtrak and the Postal Service, are fiscal failures and examples of what must eventually happen with health care. But unlike the old days of “County General”, there’s no where to go when the system inevitably fails due to the influx of monies borrowed from Communist China.
March 22, 2010 at 6:19 pm
Joe, we were talking about how dysfunctional the Post Office is, not the good benes that they get from our pockets.
A few times just last year, the Post Office has lost our mail. One package from overseas cleared customs and made it to New York City, but then disappeared into the ether. Another was sent from Amazon and the supervisor at our local P.O. actually claimed that it disappeared because Amazon didn’t use a more expensive delivery option! Turns out that it went to a building down the street and was returned to us (opened!) a few days later.
When we’ve had to mail packages and certified letters, we often wait on long lines for very long periods of time and deal with surly clerks who don’t seem to be emotionally stable.
March 22, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Also, a long time ago, health insurance should never have gone from covering major events to covering every belch and itch. Auto insurance covers major issues, not oil changes and new wiper blades.
March 22, 2010 at 6:32 pm
A difference of experience, BW. I’ve had mostly good experiences with shipping and receiving through the USPS. Considering the sheer volume they coordinate every day, I consider their success rate nothing short of miraculous.
March 23, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Interesting:
http://newledger.com/2010/03/exempted-from-obamacare-senior-staff-who-wrote-the-bill/
March 23, 2010 at 9:22 pm
-Insurance covering every belch and itch-
That’s as much our fault as it is anyone else’s, Dr. BW. Our colleagues who practised before us were instrumental in setting up the system in which everyone now expects to see a physician for every little twitch or tingle out of fear that it might be a symptom of an impending MI or an autoimmune disease. Today it’s avoided out of a fear of malpractice lawsuits, but hospitals and clinics could easily develop a financially sound profit centre using mostly nurses and PAs for a $25 cash per issue, 15 minute exam. Your burps and itches would be sent home happily and those needing further work-ups would get a referral to see an insurance-covered doc.
-ER is the most expensive care-
That’s such a crock. Sure, when the unit’s jam-packed and two patients are crashing, that sniffle-cough in the waiting area is a bother – but they’re in the waiting area… waiting. Much of the time there’s not a whole lot going on. The staff gets paid and the equipment remains in place whether that sniffle shows up or not. If you have to be there anyway for life-threatening emergencies that show up, if you’re not on overtime, and no other staff needs to be called in then it doesn’t cost anything extra besides the materials & test kits used to treat the sniffle kid, the drunk who busted his nose, or the throwing-up teenager who’s about to be told she’s pregnant.
In some cases, it’s actually less expensive to treat the indigent patient for free than it is to treat the Medicare patient for the reimbursement. Government Red Duct Tape.
February 2, 2012 at 1:44 pm
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