Free for All: 11/08/12

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86 Responses to “Free for All: 11/08/12”

  1. I got to watch Sally Kohn gloating on Imus this morning. That was entertaining/ I guess Sally thinks this is the last election that’s ever going to be held in the U.S. LOL!

  2. So, any bets that the Bush tax cuts on those earning LESS than $250,000 will get extended? I say it’s 50-50.

  3. I have been watching FOX News and seeing the devastation on Staten Island from both the hurricane and now the nor’easter. Residents say there are no city or state officials there and no FEMA. When is the media going to hold President Obama accountable the way President Bush was held accountable for Katrina? Oh, I forgot…this is the media that Joe Scarborough says the Republicans should not be criticizing. Instead of a pre-election photo-op with Christie, why doesn’t the president pay a visit to the hungry and homeless on Staten Island?

  4. I’m with you on all the other stuff, but from a “media” standpoint, this is important. Leaving aside the inevitable shots coming from a liberal, we really need to hear it. I’ve been noticing this insulation amongst conservatives for years, and this election may be our reward for it.

    http://prospect.org/article/are-conservative-media-only-hurting-conservatives

  5. ^ That’s the third article I’ve seen – the latter two both referencing the first – from liberals pointing out the fallacy of conservative media, but will any conservatives listen? I’ve been saying exactly the same thing for years, and have had no takers on the right.

    They’ve created an impregnable fortress of reality as they see it, and their consumers are instructed to mistrust any other source as “liberal” and “biased” and “wrong about everything ’cause socialism”. So “I can’t imagine this country would be crazy enough to re-elect Obama” becomes “Obama can’t win”. To paraphrase Richard Clarke, your conservative media has failed you.

  6. It used to be that the Taranto Principle was a liberal phenomenon. Since Obama, it has spread. When you stop listening to the other side, you atrophy. All this talk of “they did it first” isn’t helpful, either. Conservative Media is turning us into the district that reelects Jesse Jackson Jr, and this isn’t the future I’d hoped for.

  7. Why hasn’t Florida been called yet? What’s wrong with them?

  8. BTW, Rove and Morris weren’t the only pundits that FNC had. Larry Sabato was on almost every day and he didn’t have much hope for a Romney win. Neither did Brit Hume. And Beckel nailed it.

  9. A lot of it is just human nature. When there’s eight different polls, you believe the ones most favorable. Drudge did that up until about nine o’clock Tuesday. And Fox has a revolving-door of pretty, smug conservatives who constantly reassure the audience or things we already want to believe.

  10. Laura, don’t all political pundits do that? Everyone had John Kerry winning in 2004 and we know how that turned out.

  11. “carolmr Says:
    November 8, 2012 at 8:31 am ”

    ^^ carol Your comment is just a list of right wing talking points. You really have to stop believing everything you see on Fox news.

    Re Florida. They are still counting votes. The race as it stands is Obama by .52%. For anything over .5% there’s an automatic recount. Florida doesn’t want to pay for the recount as it would be costly and meaningless;therefore they want to count every vote in a hope it says over the .5% mark. If the do waive the recount the Romney campaign can still demand one but i doubt that would happen for obvious reasons. Source: Chuck Todd – DR.

  12. “For anything over .5% there’s an automatic recount.”

    ^^This should read: For anything under .5% there’s an automatic recount. Very sorry.

  13. Fritz, I stand by everything I said at 8:31. It’ what I believe based on the reactions by the MSM toward Katrina and Sandy. Anybody can see the difference in blame/coverage. It isn’t just that Obama isn’t being blamed, he’s being praised for doing such a good job. Tell that to the cold, hungry, homeless people on Staten Island and the Rockaways who haven’t gotten so much as a postcard from FEMA. 99% of my family live in NY and NJ and I’m hearing how horrendous and dangerous conditions are there and how little help they are getting from FEMA. So kindly stop lecturing to me about talking points and FOX News.

  14. Most disappointed in the 2012 Election: LAWYERS.

    FLORIDA FLORIDA FLORIDA

  15. Fritz apologizes more than my farting dog.

  16. Everyone had John Kerry winning in 2004 and we know how that turned out.

    Uh, no..they didn’t. A lot of people got excited about early exit polls that day, but we didn’t have a plethora of pundits banging the “he’s got it in the bag” drum days before the election.

  17. Other than Dick Morris, I don’t recall anyone saying Romney had it in the bag.

  18. As you recall, this FNC lover predicted an Obama win. Too much belly button gazing that FNC viewers were somehow deceived by the peanut gallery.

  19. Rush Limbaugh told 20 million people on Monday Romney would “win big”, then on Wed. admitted he “had been worried”. That works out as propaganda, which is a lot of what rightwing media dishes out. They tell their consumers what they want them to believe – and what those consumers want to hear – and reality gets left in the dust.

  20. Rush has nothing to do with FNC. Just because you are a conservative doesn’t mean he is your guru. Like liberals usually remind us when it’s in their interest, Rush is an entertainer.

  21. Rush supposedly has 20 million listeners. If he said, on Monday, that Romney would “win big”, that’s a problem. In years past, he has always been a cheerleader, but he would acknowledge that it was tight and exhort people to go to the polls. Having not listened, I don’t know what else he said, and much may have been. But, you NEVER say that your side is going to “win”, certainly not if the goal is to get people out to vote. My opinion is that Rush was more invested in being “right” and “predicting” the outcome than being honest.

  22. “Other than Dick Morris, I don’t recall anyone saying Romney had it in the bag.”

    ^^George Will – Romney 321 EV
    Michael Barone – Romney 315 EV
    Glenn Beck – Romney 321 EV
    Newt Gingrich – Romney more than 300 EV
    There are lots more but you had to know that.

  23. Rush has nothing to do with FNC. Just because you are a conservative doesn’t mean he is your guru. Like liberals usually remind us when it’s in their interest, Rush is an entertainer.

    The articles in question discuss major rightwing media, of which Rush is most certainly a part. This isn’t specifically about FNC.

  24. Carol I’m sorry your family members are still living horrible conditions; but blaming Obama personally is just silly. Why not blame Christie, Bloomberg or Cuomo.

    And as Al has explained here on a number of occasions FEMA provides money, housing and equipment to states and cities. It doesn’t deliver the money or other goods to the victims personally.

    Fox goes to a disaster area and records victims who complain about Obama or Democrats in general. They’ve been doing since they started up and it still works with the true believers.

  25. what’s good for the Bush is good for the Obama.

  26. Fritz, thank you for your concern. Thank God my relatives are OK, their homes – not so much.
    I actually have blamed Nurse Bloomberg (maybe not here). He wouldn’t let the National Guard help because they had guns. What a moron. The people of Rockaway threw 4-letter words at him when he made a surprise visit last week. He told them to speak to his press person. Bloomberg is getting criticism for his response. So is Christie, but to a lesser degree. My question is: Why did Bush get the brunt of the blame for Katrina and Mayor Nagin and Gov. Blanco get very little from the press? The media covers for this president like nothing I have ever seen. Obama went to NJ for his photo-op then left never to return, while people are still being pulled out of the water on SI. People are begging for help from FEMA. Do you really believe that if Obama were a Republican, he wouldn’t be getting any blame? Brian Williams would be talking about Sandy for the next 6 months. And all we heard at the time was that Bush hated black people.

  27. According to a report in the Wall Street Journal last month, “attorneys for the lawmaker Jesse Jackson recently sought assurance from senior Justice Department officials to not seek an indictment before the November election.”

    Jackson will lose the seat he just won by 64 % if he accepts a plea bargain under consideration.

    Gee, how will Republicans win those votes?

  28. Joe S. was positively giddy on Wednesday’s show. I’m telling you – he was glad Obama won. Joe wants to be seen as the only “sane” Republican.

  29. Carol; Sandy happened last week; but when you have no power a week seems like a year. The day of the storm all the politicians make it clear that in many places, particularly those where power outages were caused by downed trees; it could be a few weeks before power was restored. That is sad but true.

    I’m not going to litigate Katrina again other than to say there was plenty of blame thrown on all parties (except the military) at the time. Same goes for the BP spill.

    If Obama went back to NJ or NY for another look Fox and the RW blogs would be saying he was only there for a photo op. Heck thats’ what they said after his first visit.

    The relief and rebuilding of the storm damage is mainly a state responsibility (except for FEMA). The POTUS only needs to go back or even comment if the situation is not being fixed on schedule or major screw ups happen. There is no real evidence that the rebuilding is being screwed up in a major way. There are local delays and missed deadlines but on the whole the situation appears to be well handled.

    We’ve just had a second big storm hit the area and that is going to complicate and delay the recovery even more. That is also sad but true.

  30. Fritz, yes, the nor’easter will delay the recovery even more. That’s not Obama’s or any politician’s fault. Some of my relatives who got back their power, lost it again after the new storm. I guess we will always disagree about the media treatment of Katrina/Sandy and the respective presidents.

  31. The response to Sandy hasn’t been that impressive. New Jersey’s done a good job but New York City was more concerned about making sure Wall Street and the sports arenas had power — but that’s what happens when you have Michael Bloomberg as Mayor.

  32. Conservatives may agree that Bush was treated unfairly. The response seems to be that Obama should be treated equally unfairly, in order to ‘get even’. It’s a pointless goal, but it seems to be what animates a lot of our side. The problem is, that obvious desire gives the press an excuse to ignore what might otherwise be a legitimate complaint.

  33. The press will come up with an excuse to protect the anointed one one way or another.

  34. “that Obama should be treated equally unfairly, in order to ‘get even’.”

    ^^ That’s a good point but I think it’s just an opportunity to attack the POTUS and that any excuse will do.

    I was just watching Cavuto and he spent time interviewing a Sandy victim in NY that had not been visited personally by someone from FEMA. The gist of the interview was that this was somehow the fault of the federal Government.

    As well the had on someone with a story about how FEMA had put up a sign saying that their offices in the storm damaged area would be closed while the ‘northeaster’ was occurring. Nothing about the thousands of other businesses or organizations that were also closed; just FEMA was at fault. Cavuto nodded knowingly while leading the reporter through the story so as to make the relief organization look bad.
    Are there any positive stories on FNC about power coming back on or FEMA helping provide help to victims? I doubt it. In a disaster you can always find victims a sad stories of personal lost. It’s the fault of the disaster not the people or groups trying to help recover from the disaster, despite what Fox News tells you.

  35. That’s not to say that the story isn’t legitimate, it’s just that you know that Fox has a base-line from which they report. Hannity and Fox & Friends infect the rest of the network. In that sense, no one is objective, but my focus is on the outlet that my side tends to watch.

  36. Like right now, Cavuto is showing all the mutual congratulations going on with FEMA, the Govs, etc. He’s no Hannity, but he suffers from the comparison.

  37. Karl Rove has lost it. He’s new line is that Obama won because ‘he suppressed the vote with negative ads’ that turned off potential voters. Sheesh!

  38. Funny, I thought that made as much sense as anything. I don’t know if it was by design, but the numbers seem to say that each got significantly fewer votes than ’08. It slays me to think that Romney got fewer than McCain. That just doesn’t even seem possible.

  39. Katrina had people holed up inside the Superdome, which “Brownie” seemed to be learning about from Ted Koppel. The impression left was that the Bush Administration was so out of touch with what was going on on the ground that they weren’t even watching the news. You’re never going to change that part of the story, and you’re never going to turn Sandy into “Obama’s Katrina”. Get over it.

  40. People have speculated Obama would allow the northern section of the Keystone XL pipeline to be built after the election is over. It will be interesting to see how all those environmentalists who voted for Obama will react.

  41. That doesn’t mean that the story should be ignored. If anything, it’s yet another example of government failure, which can never be over-reported. It’s the whole angle of “Why isn’t the press reporting on Obama’s Whatever” that gets really old, really fast.

  42. “the impression left” was formulated by a press geared to make Bush look bad. When it comes to Obama the gears point the other way. And don’t be telling me what to get over. I’ll make up my own mind.

  43. I enjoy REALLY OLD. I savor it really slow.

  44. People change you know. Maybe the majority of the press now have a better understanding of what federalism is and how it works.

  45. They are still working on socialism.

  46. Bush appointed the President of the Arabian Horse Assoc. to lead FEMA – a revered institution at the time – because he was a doofus who didn’t take that federal program seriously, and it bit him in the arse. Obama doesn’t have a “Brownie”, and he wasn’t caught on camera telling one what a “heckuva job” he was doing while people were suffering. Believe it or not, sometimes people being lousy at their jobs is not the MSM’s fault.

  47. During the Grapevine segment, Baier ticked-off the list of polls, in order of accuracy. Rasmussen was in the bottom-five, along with Gallup. PPP was near the top. Oops.

  48. Republicans dismantle government in a way that it can’t be effective. Then, when government is absolutely needed, it’s ineffective.

  49. Back to Sandy: I have a relative who lives on Long Island in one of the five towns. Upscale neighborhood. They were visited LAST WEEK by FEMA people, as was everyone in the neighborhood, asking them what was needed, what had to be done, what can we do for you now, etc. And none of the homes were destroyed in this area. No one was left homeless. I don’t think FEMA put any effort into visiting the people in the Rockaways, Staten Island, or Coney Island. That’s not right.

  50. “I don’t think FEMA put any effort into visiting the people in the Rockaways, Staten Island, or Coney Island.”

    ^^ You don’t know any of that for a fact. All you know is that some friends and family that you know that live there tell you that they haven’t personally talked to a FEMA rep.yet.

    You can’t speak for anyone outside their immediate neighbourhood. It is impossible to believe that no FEMA personal have been to Staten Island, Coney Island or the Rockaways in the past week.

  51. so speaks Mr. Know it All from Florida.

  52. Here’s a link to an article on a subject I brought up in an earlier post; the Puerto Rico statehood question. Lots of info on the subject including how the new flag might look (which was of some interest to blue). Hope the link works.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/08/1158728/-The-Puerto-Rico-Question?detail=hide

  53. “so speaks Mr. Know it All from Florida.”

    ^^ You think I live in Florida? LOL

  54. Fritz, are the residents in the outer boroughs of NYC lying when they tell reporters that they have not been visited by FEMA? I also have family and friends on SI and NJ and they have not been visited by FEMA.

  55. I think Romney conceded Florida.

  56. “are the residents in the outer boroughs of NYC lying when they tell reporters that they have not been visited by FEMA?”

    ^^ No it just doesn’t prove FEMA hasn’t been to the areas you speak about. I would think most of the residents in those areas haven’t seen FEMA agents in person.

    If the reporters are from FOX then they are just doing what they were assigned to do; get interviews with people that haven’t been visited by FEMA and are upset by that. It’s easy to find those people; especially after a week without power.

    Are there any MSM stories about FEMA ignoring poorer areas of NY & NJ: you know like AP, ABC, CBS NY Times etc.?

  57. Senator Ron Johnson (Wisconsin) says the reason Obama won was because Democrats were ignorant of the ‘real’ issues. Yeah that’s it, the electorate is just too stupid to vote Republican. Talk about out of touch.

  58. Okay, cross off Fritz in Florida. 49 to go if we don’t count Puerto Rico. I don’t hide where I live, Fritz.
    My company used to have a factory in Puerto Rico and a house it owned for visitors to stay. Used our plane to fly there. I loved when we made payroll program changes so I could go.

  59. “Yeah that’s it, the electorate is just too stupid to vote Republican. Talk about out of touch.”

    May be ignorant, but you better believe they are genius at milking the system. They know who is going to punch their meal ticket.

  60. imnotblue Says:

    Sorry Fritz, can’t view your story,

    My phone blocks hate sites.

  61. “Are there any MSM stories about FEMA ignoring poorer areas of NY & NJ: you know like AP, ABC, CBS NY Times etc.?”

    Of course not. These outlets don’t care about Sandy; they only cared about incompetence during Katrina.

  62. Fritz has a problem with links. Not that he is ignorant or anything.

  63. Poll consolidator Real Clear Politics, with Forida undecided, correctly predicted EVERY STATE.

    Oh Joe, listen closely, THE POLLS WERE RIGHT, if averaged.

  64. icemannyr Says:

    Obama only won because he ran a sleazy negative campaign and cheated to win according to Hannity tonight in the first segment. Cheating? What a clown.
    It’s amazing his show on FNC gets ratings.

  65. I like Hannity a lot better when he talks about what WE did wrong, rather that the tedious discussion of media-bias and the Scandal Du Jour. He’s kinda lecturing the GOP, at the moment, and reviewing the debacle of Akin and Mourdock. Damn near bearable. “Vetting the candidates”. Exactly. If you can’t answer a freaking question about abortion, then Go Away.

  66. Gee, Benghazi is really disappearing, now that the election is over.

  67. Why is “Joe” getting busted on for the polls? I never claimed they were inaccurate. The only thing I got wrong was that I thought it would be closer. Oh wait..

    The polls are wrong if everybody wakes up tomorrow and decides en masse that Mitt Romney as president is a ridiculous notion. It could happen.

  68. a quote hung out by itself:

    THE POLLS ARE WRONG!

    now when I got to jr. high I learned that that meant the polls are wrong.
    Even at Bill Clinton Middle School it probably is still true.

  69. the again, maybe I was drinking

  70. Best thing I’ve read since the election:

    With conservatives across the country concerned about a rumored Republican cave-in in Washington, D.C. over tax policy, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is speaking out. Read his lips: no tax hikes.
    McConnell said in an exclusive statement to Breitbart News:
    One issue I’ve never been conflicted about is taxes. I wasn’t sent to Washington to raise anybody’s taxes to pay for more wasteful spending and this election doesn’t change my principles. This election was a disappointment, without doubt, but let’s be clear about something: the House is still run by Republicans, and Republicans still maintain a robust minority in the Senate. I know some people out there think Tuesday’s results mean Republicans in Washington are now going to roll over and agree to Democrat demands that we hike tax rates before the end of the year. I’m here to tell them there is no truth to that notion whatsoever.

  71. Mitch McConnell is a moron, and my quote was SARCASM!

  72. Spud just posted this on the ICN Facebook page:

    Donald Trump wanting to start a petition drive to have Chris Matthews fired because he said something stupidly offensive is like Gaylord Perry wanting to start a petition drive to outlaw the spitball…

  73. I hereby withdraw all my negative Joe BS.

  74. Quick question: What is there for Boehner to “walk back” about saying that ObamaCare is “the law of the land”? I don’t like it either, but perhaps the fact that fewer Republicans voted than in ’08 has something to do with that being the case.

  75. John Boehner is supposed to wring his hands and stomp his feet and pretend “we can still throw Obama out and repeal Obamacare” and shout NO COMPROMISE to keep the True Believers happy until the next time the voters tell them that gig ain’t playing. NEVER SURRENDER!

  76. In other words, he can keep humping the same dead horse that helped us lose the last election, and thus retain that 2500 pages of cow flop. #War. #OrNot

  77. Oh cry me a river. It was just two years ago the tide swept Nancy Pelosi’s batch out to sea in a historic loss and had Obama declare he took a thumping. Now you two sob sisters think the present is a snapshot of all that will ever be. I ain’t buying your crapola. Sell it to each other.

  78. Read the leaves, Kelly. That demo crash was coming, and it finally hit. The GOP is going to make some changes (see: a little more Christie attitude), or they’re a Southern-only party. If y’all can’t beat a battered incumbent in a crap economy, then there is something structurally broken.

  79. I made a simple statement: Why are people acting as though Boehner said something wrong? I’m not saying that we should go along with anything in particular, I just don’t see the problem with what he said.

  80. Because “people” need Obama to be the devil, and even stating a basic fact about his bill staying in place will get you in trouble. “People” need to grow up and understand that the President and Congress are supposed to be getting some damn work done up there, and stating with basic facts is the first step.

  81. Stating that it’s “the law of the land” doesn’t mean that you can’t, at some point, attempt to curb or repeal it. The problem is that we don’t trust Boehner any more than the rest of them, so people are picking at every single thing he says. Let’s wait for him to sell us out and then get upset. Oh, wait..

  82. The center of the country is RED enough to hold Congress, which is region oriented, long enough to hold Obama and his taxing and spending at bay for the rest of his term. That’s fine by me as I’d rather have nothing get done without a grand bargin that truly shreds spending.

  83. “Stating that it’s “the law of the land” doesn’t mean that you can’t, at some point, attempt to curb or repeal it.”

    ^^ Yeah it pretty much does. In the last Congress the House passed 33 bills attacking ‘Obamacare’. None became law. Next year the POTUS is free from running again, the Senate is more Democrat controlled and the House is less Tea Party controlled.

    Boehner is a deal maker at heart who wants to have a legacy other than being the worse speaker ever so he will negotiate with Obama and Reid. I think the days of total obstruction are easing in the house. We’ll know in the next few weeks.

  84. You will know it happened the POTUS has made a compromise that has pissed you off for giving too much. Then there will have been the GREAT DEAL. How’s the weather in Vermont today?

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