Free for All: 12/14/12

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115 Responses to “Free for All: 12/14/12”

  1. Oh boy, a new Free for All!

    I’m so excited to see what the Liberals will blame on FOX News today!

  2. The Susan Rice stuff is infuriating. Are you happy, Republicans? You successfully burned the messenger alive.

    She isn’t blameless, but I hate how she was brought down all because the Republicans needed a “scandal” so Romney could win. That’s what it’s all about. They knew when they started their BS “investigation” in to Benghazi that they wouldn’t have the facts until after the election so they designated Susan Rice as their target hoping to bring Obama down.

    Now that you idiots brought Susan Rice down, are you done with this sham farce of a mockery so-called investigation? Can we start getting down to the bottom of intelligence failures leading up to the Benghazi attack now? While at it, can we get to the bottom of Pat Tillman’s death? And “intelligence failures” pre-Iraq?

  3. You’re close, Andy. While you mention nothing of the Democrats, and successfully blame Republicans (despite Democrats apparently not doing what you wanted them to do either, or -and this is the tough one that nobody on the left seems able to do- explaining why Rice was a good or qualified choice in the first place)… you didn’t blame FOX for any of it.

    Come on, you’re slipping. If you’re not blaming FNC AND the Republicans, you’re not doing it right.

  4. OMG!!!! 27 dead in the shooting at an elementary school in Connecticut.

  5. What kind of chemical imbalance causes someone to go to an elementary school and murder a bunch of children???

  6. Also, the first person to bark about gun control will be on the receiving end of a verbal tirade. Guns didn’t cause this, a psychopathic sick twisted f’d up individual with a sick mind caused this.

  7. All the cable nets reporting, as well as CBS News broadcast.

  8. A very bad situation happening with the school shooting in CT.
    Sadly what was initially reported as 3 shot has turned into a mass shooting and FNC is now giving it full coverage.
    Earlier when there was not much information confirmed FNC was still doing regular interviews and stories.

  9. I’d like to believe that the 27 number will fall sharply, once things become more clear. That seems to be the pattern of these things… people on scene miscount or double count, and the number skyrockets, and then falls later one.

    At least, I sure do hope that’s what’s going to happen. *sigh*

  10. MSNBC’s been running the story since I woke up around 10:30.

  11. CBS News: 18 children among 27 dead.

  12. Someone around here said that if it’s fewer than five people, it doesn’t make big news. I think that is unfortunately true. I know that it doesn’t hit personally as much, when it is fewer, which is perhaps a defense-mechanism as much as anything.

  13. NBC News confirming CBS reports. NBC at regular programming, relying on MSNBC’s regular programming for coverage. And Alex Wagner should be pulled off the air for her remarks.

  14. The story is being covered by every broadcast station in the NYC area.
    WCBS is airing the CBS News Special Report on its sister station WLNY and WNBC is airing NBC News Special Report on their 4.2 digital channel.

  15. NBC News and CBS News on air with special reports. ABC News, at least here in Roanoke, has not interrupted regular programming.

  16. Our NBC is carrying national. GA.

  17. MSNBC 100% should not have their opinion hosts anchoring and political guests involved with coverage of this school shooting.
    Shameful that now Andrea Mitchell is turing this into an anti gun political agenda.

  18. Interviewing a little girl.

  19. I agree Ice. I don’t know who the hell thinks it’s a good idea to have Alex Wagner and Andrea Mitchell on Breaking News coverage during these mass shootings. It’s the same thing, every single time, with those two idiots.

  20. Same on David Gregory to for turning this into a gun control debate. MSNBC should pull them off the air and have a real news anchor covering this.

  21. I think Clint Van Zandt has had it with Alex Wagner and Andrea Mitchell’s hyperpartisan stupidity. He went on NBC News and said “eliminating guns” doesn’t solve the problem.

  22. So, David Gregory, what kind of “motive” makes this senseless violence acceptable?

  23. Andrea Mitchell is asking guest Susan Page how this incident effects the president.
    I don’t think it’s going overboard to call MSNBC’s coverage disgusting.

  24. Jesus Andrea, why don’t you get a shovel?

  25. I can’t believe MSNBC even during an incident like this does not suspend their liberal political agenda as the event is on going and cover it as a news story.

    No wonder NBC News wants to distance them selfs from MSNBC.
    FNC on their option shows has every right to bash MSNBC’s coverage of this school shooting.

  26. Erica Hill, and now Norah O’Donnell, have done an incredible job on CBS. Very classy coverage.

  27. “FNC on their option shows has every right to bash MSNBC’s coverage of this school shooting.”

    Every serious journalist should be criticizing MSNBC. Why couldn’t they have kept Chris Jansing and Thomas Roberts on? I mean, they had to know what direction Alex Wagner and Andrea Mitchell would take their coverage.

    Alex Wagner has never done a classy job covering a breaking event. As for Andrea Mitchell… I really like Andrea and it’s a damn shame to see her basically ruining her entire career as a journalist in one day.

  28. David Muir is anchoring a ABC News Special Report.
    The report is being simulcast on ABC News Now.
    WABC is not airing ABC network programming on their 7.2 digital channel.
    WBCS is airing network programming on WLNY.
    WNBC moved network programming to 4.2.

  29. Congratulations MSNBC, you just gave Hannity and Limbaugh the most effective talking point they will ever have to make all liberals look like bad people because Alex Wagner politicized this in world record time.

  30. MSNBC should enact a new policy, as soon as possible, where they’ll have someone on a breaking news desk during dayside and, if major news breaks, they’ll interrupt their dayside opinion shows.

    Though I did notice Craig Melvin picked up coverage after a while last hour.

  31. “Also, the first person to bark about gun control will be on the receiving end of a verbal tirade. Guns didn’t cause this, a psychopathic sick twisted f’d up individual with a sick mind caused this.” –Andy

    Let me point out, you were the first one to bring up gun control. Since you did, I should say if now is not the time to bring it up, when the hell is a good time? Yes, a crazy psycho did this. A crazy psycho, WITH A GUN. There is no way a targeting killing of 27+ people in a short amount of time could be achieved without a gun. What, a knife? Don’t make me laugh. How often does this have to happen? As for Alex and Andrea, I did not hear what they said but if they brought up gun control then they are speaking for hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who are thinking the same damn thing: how do we allow this to keep happening?

    This tragedy is unacceptable.

    Go ahead, finish your gun control tirade… I don’t f&&king care. I think this event speaks for itself. Go give your “people kill people” lectures to the parents of the slain children.

    CBS News reporting many children were killed execution-style. This is unimaginably horrific.

  32. Shocking and awful.

    CBS: Children shot “execution style”.
    NBC: Shooter’s mother found dead in her home.
    CBS: The shooter’s mother was a teacher at the school. Children killed were her Kindergarten students.

  33. @Elle

    When is an appropriate time?

    PERHAPS AFTER THE F&&KING FACTS ARE KNOWN?!

    Until then, perhaps you should work on coming up with an original f***ing idea on what to do about gun control… or if that’s too much thinking for you, try shutting up for a while and showing a little damn respect for the dead. Using them… CHILDREN FOR GOD’S SAKE… as political pawns is nauseating.

  34. For the first time ever, I agree with blue.

  35. Lester Holt, on NBC, at a total loss for words as each detail comes in. His reactions say it all.

  36. Always liked Lester.

    I have no problem talking about reasonable solutions and realistic plans, but without the information we’re just talking out our backsides. That’s not how you make policy, that’s how you make problems.

    And saying “We need more…” doesn’t solve anything either. “More” what? What should we do?

  37. We don’t even know if the guns were obtained legally or not. If they were, discussion about regulation is fair game. If they were obtained illegally, there’s no amount of gun control that would’ve prevented this.

    Here’s the thing about criminals — they don’t obey laws.

  38. Keith Ablow’s speculation on the shooter on FNC is as bad as MSNBC’s turing this into a gun control debate.

  39. Ice, give them time…. they’re probably trying to find out who he voted for so Hannity can go on air and say “OBAMA SUPPORTER KILLS CHILDREN”.

  40. On the flip side, I’ve already seen a bunch of my conservative friends claim that this is an Obama setup to confiscate guns.

    Good grief, is this country really THAT divided?

  41. That other TV News blog mentioned that MSNBC is not changing its schedule and all the opinion shows are going to broadcast today.

  42. FOX also sticking with normal programming tonight. C’mon, O’Donnell (MSNBC) and Hannity (FOX) are too polarizing when it comes to issues relating to gun violence.

  43. The “How dare you not wait for all of the facts to come in!” / “The bodies are still warm!” routine is a deliberate tactic designed to silence and stall until the horror of the events recedes, and minds are diverted and lulled back into complacency. The jig is up. Your false appeal to ‘respect’ for the victims isn’t going to work much longer. You’re fine with any and all preliminary reporting and analysis until the subject of accessibility of the weapons used in the massacre are broached. Imagine that. CBS is now reporting which types of firearms were used. Is it okay to start discussing policy related to these now? Which specific facts do you require? Are you still waiting for self-defense to be officially ruled out?

    Just because something can be defined as a ‘political issue’ doesn’t make it off-limits for an always unspecified length of time. That concept is pure idiocy in our instant commentary culture. If you’re confident in your positions, be willing to have an open discussion encompassing all perspectives, and stop the intimidation.

  44. Jenna Lee is on FNC, where is Shepard Smith?

  45. President Obama: “We’re going to have to come together to take action to prevent tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.”

  46. You’re using these slaughtered CHILDREN as PAWNS to bandy about anchor changes and programming decisions. YOU MONSTER!

  47. Who knew that asking to wait for the basic facts was and would be simply too much to ask for some people.

    They want to “have a discussion,” yet have nothing but finger pointing and blame to “discuss.”

    So yes, let me intimidate you… let me scare you into knowing what your talking about before you sign online, to have a plan, or know the facts before you start saying what should and shouldn’t be done. Wooooo… scary.

  48. Clint Van Zandt has been on a tear today. It’s almost like he’s frustrated with the stupid nonsense being spouted on MSNBC and is venting on NBC.

  49. Does Spud interview new commenters to see which ones can be more idiotic than what we already have?

  50. Again, identify which specific facts must be established before you give the go ahead, and why the current lack of them is to prohibit any discussion whatsoever of guns.

  51. Meanwhile, FOX News is blaming videogames. C’mon man. Millions of people play these first person shooter games — using FOX logic, there’d be millions of mass shootings every day.

  52. One other observation about the coverage. If MSNBC insists on keeping Alex Wagner on at noon during Breaking News, someone needs to tell her she shouldn’t have that smirk on her face when talking about a mass casualty shooting.

  53. lonestar77 Says:

    No more weasly words of ‘comfort’ Mr President. This is the latest, and worst, gun outrage on your watch. Time to act. #GunControl — Piers Morgan

  54. Here’s an immediate parallel. Dr. Drew – yuck – was just on CNN addressing his “suspicions” about the mental health aspects of this case. Is that a too soon outrage worthy of much scorn and monocle-popping? Or is it as self-evident that the personal responsible for these acts likely had mental health issues as that he probably shouldn’t have had access to a handgun?

  55. ^ person responsible, not “personal”

  56. savefarris Says:

    Haven’t been able to watch any coverage yet: Has Brian Ross ID’d the shooters yet?

  57. What we should do about guns in this violent country is a perfectly reasonable question to ask at this time. It is also reasonable to ask if the media – including very realistic first-person shooter games, and torture-porn slasher films – bear some responsibility for creating a society which fetishizes murder. It’s also reasonable to bring these things up on this blog when half this thread has been covered by someone demanding we not discuss them, while repeatedly making his opinions obvious.

  58. lonestar77 Says:

    I don’t see a society that “fetishizes murder”. To do something like this you have to be out of your freaking mind. No video game or movie or gun website could possibly lead somebody to do this. The guy was obviously nuts.

  59. There is seriously something wrong in America when these mass shootings constantly happen. You look at gun ownership in different countries and easily single out America. These shootings happen around in European countries including those with strict gun laws but not as frequently. Then you have Finland, which has lax gun laws and somehow manage to have way less mass shootings. It’s too bad people don’t want to have a discussion because lives are at stake. But it can’t be any discussion, it has to be a civil and open-minded one.

  60. Checking NYC radio WFAN and ESPN NY the two sports stations are covering the shooting.
    ESPN NY is simulcasting WABC TV coverage.

    Hannity is doing his regular radio show with a partisan debate about gun control with Ann Coulter and Juan Williams. It’s real boring radio.

  61. I’m sorry, but the guy that was obviously nuts lives in a society which treats gun violence as entertainment, and provides easy acces to the damn things. I don’t have all the answers, but this nation is going to talk about it NOW.

  62. For starters, the gangsta rap. Justifying murder is a frequent theme.

  63. Did the FOX Broadcasting Company provide local stations a special report about the shootings in Newtown, Connecticut?

  64. If they did, the Spokane affiliate isn’t broadcasting it, Law and Order is on instead. Same with the NBC affiliate. The way networks function in the states is quite different from those elsewhere in the world, where all local stations have almost no autonomy, but the majority are O&O.
    It’s wall to wall coverage on BBC World News, Al Jazeera, and the Canadian nets.

  65. lonestar77 Says:

    The odds of getting killed in a mass shooting are about the same as winning the Lotto. There’s nothing you can do to change it. Outlaw guns, fine. They’ll magically disappear like everything else that is against the law to own. As for entertainment, good luck getting hollywood to stop making violent movies and video game companies to stop making violent games. Its just not gonna happen. You are having a knee jerk reaction. There’s nothing you can do to stop one lone nut from hurting people. Did you see the guy a few weeks ago that shot his dad with a freaking Bow & Arrow in his classroom? Some people are just crazy. But, the odds of you being harmed by any of them are slim. I don’t worry about my kids getting hurt by a random deranged psychopath. I worry about them being involved in a car accident or getting sick or any of the number of other things that are far more likely to happen.

  66. @Andy

    You and I share many similar political views. On gun control, I respectfully disagree.

    The pro-gun lobby has won this political fight. The rules, regs, laws, and rights are as the gun lobby wants them – as expansive as possible. You, the pro-gun lobby won, we, the gun control advocates lost. You would think, today would be the day you decide to NOT gloat about it.

    @imnotblue
    When did you ever show up to this blog with a “discussion plan” and solution to the world’s problems? I’ve never seen it! So, shut your pie hole, knuckle-dragger. Don’t you have a war on christmas to fight?

    @lonestar77
    You actually make a very good point. We can’t make policy on knee-jerk reactions. Although, I would argue gun deaths (not just mass-shootings) are more common than you might think. Still, the threats to ones we love are more common and mundane than what we are witnessing today. That being said, that is of no consolation to the victims of these shootings.

    @joeremi
    “I don’t have all the answers, but this nation is going to talk about it NOW.” – yeah, I’m for that.

  67. Yeah, I’m fed up with hearing “there’s nothing we can do”. A man with a gun massacred 20 babies. Bob Costas was right.

  68. A random In Other News comment. Now that the Steven Crowder story has been beaten to death, MSNBC is back ahead of FOX at 9 and 10 pm.

  69. “You and I share many similar political views. On gun control, I respectfully disagree.”

    I think you’ll find that we’re closer in our views on gun control than you think. I just want all the facts out before I bark about regulating guns and ammunition.

    I’m merely saying Alex Wagner should’ve closed her mouth. 20 children are dead and she’s sitting there with a stupid little smirk on her face talking about gun control. Now, I know Alex Wagner isn’t happy that this happened, but the appearance was awful and disgusting.

  70. Alex Wagner is an opinion host talking to an audience which respects and largely agrees with her opinions. To criticize her for advocating gun control in the face of another insane masssacre is ridiculous.

  71. One thing I’ve noticed. The NRA hasn’t released a statement, of any kind, about today’s massacre.

  72. Pro-gun people, you’d help your “cause” if you condemned senseless gun violence instead of blaming the victims for not being armed.

  73. No one is “in favor” of gun violence. Making a statement would be derided as cheap PR, while being picked apart for insensitivity. Other hand, implying that people in a classroom should have been armed is every bit as “opportunistic” on the day of as discussing gun control. Not that I have a major problem with discussing gun control, just saying.

  74. Ann Coulter is behaving typically, which should amply show us what she’s become. Sean giving her airtime is also disgusting.

  75. “Alex Wagner is an opinion host talking to an audience which respects and largely agrees with her opinions. To criticize her for advocating gun control in the face of another insane masssacre is ridiculous.”

    No it’s not. She sat there, with a smirk on her face, saying she was hoping we could talk about gun law reform. I know it’s her style and I know she’s not gleeful about it, but the appearance is horrible. Reminds me of what you used to complain about with Veronica De La Cruz.

  76. “Ann Coulter is behaving typically, which should amply show us what she’s become. Sean giving her airtime is also disgusting.”

    Yeah… more guns would’ve prevented this (eyeroll).

    Damn 5 year old kids should’ve learned how to use a gun, gotten a permit and then killed the bad guy when he walked in the classroom and started firing on them. (sarcasm)

  77. Did you know that this tragedy could’ve been prevented if people prayed in school? Well, if you watch FOX News, now you do know that.

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/12/14/1339971/huckabee-says-connecticut-school-massacre-occurred-because-we-removed-god-from-our-schools/

  78. That’s a tough one. I think that there was a time when people had a stronger belief in God, but more importantly Heaven and Hell. If a person is deranged enough to kill a bunch of people, and not care if he dies or even plan for it, what other deterrent is there? I don’t know how you apply that, and would never presume to place blame, but I do believe that it’s an element.

  79. You know your network’s a cluster**** when Al Sharpton does the best job out of anyone on your network covering a news story.

  80. Yet the very same people who complain that there isn’t enough religion in this country want more guns on the street.

  81. A Reverend is a Reverend, no matter how small.

  82. Huckabee’s statement is garbled. He talks about God not being in peoples’ lives, and how that may lead to a rise in violence. That’s a fair POV, but then he attaches it to Christianity not being promoted in schools. That’s just opportunistic BS.

  83. “He talks about God not being in peoples’ lives, and how that may lead to a rise in violence. That’s a fair POV”

    I feel the same way. I just don’t agree with promoting religion in school and I have a problem with the very same people wanting more guns on the street.

  84. Bob Costas was right. We have a “Gun Culture” problem. Gun violence is glorified on TV, in music and in video games. Then, we make it as easy as possible for someone to get a gun. And then we all sit in shock when bad things happen.

  85. lonestar77 Says:

    You may be correct about gun deaths, Elle, I don’t know the stats. But, one thing that is for sure is that coverage of incidents like this has definitely increased simply due to 24/7 nature of news.

  86. CBS really needs to buy Current and turn it in to a real network. These other news nets were terrible today.

    That and “CBS Current” sounds cool.

  87. @jamiedupree
    Gun Owners of America head Larry Pratt: “Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands”

    Now that’s how you do it…

  88. ^ That doesn’t even make sense.

  89. @ Elle

    When have I presented something without a plan, since you apparently know. Or is this just more meaningless spit-balling.

    Okay, so you’ve got no plan, no ideas, just whining that “something” must be done, an no idea what that might be… and it’s my fault for being frustrated by that. Sure. Makes perfect sense.

    I ask for the facts, you ask for Superman… and I’m the “knuckledragger?”

    If your not going to be embarrassed by your lack of understanding, I suppose I’ll have to be embarrassed for you.

  90. Larry Pratt exists to give us a greater appreciation for Wayne LaPierre,

  91. I think Huckabee’s statement is as dopey and insensitive as any of the Liberal hosts we’ve been talking about today.

    Do we know how religious this person or his family was? Do we know what his religious views were?

    It’s stupid and opportunistic.

  92. “Okay, so you’ve got no plan, no ideas, just whining that ‘something’ must be done, an no idea what that might be… and it’s my fault for being frustrated by that. Sure. Makes perfect sense.”

    I thought you were frustrated – no, aghast – that anyone would introduce the subject at all before all of those facts were in. Now you’re bitching that specific proposals haven’t been spelled out on this subject we shouldn’t be discussing?

  93. As of 7:15pm EST December 14, 2012, the National Rifle Association has yet to issue a statement offering condolences to the families of the children slain or a statement condemning today’s senseless act of violence.

  94. Was The Cycle on today? I was wondering what SE Cupp said, since I know she is a gun owner and supports gun rights.

  95. The Cycle was on, but I had CBS News on instead.

  96. RT @teala: RIP Dawn Hochsprung. Principal at Sandy Hook. Before killed in a fight with the shooter she warned the school on the PA system.

  97. @ gnom

    I’m pointing out that the people trying to use this for political gain, have no actual plans.

    And part of the reason for that is because we don’t know all the information. How can we come up with a plan, without knowing how or why this happened?

    What part of that is confusing to you?

  98. Anderson Cooper ‏@andersoncooper
    In answer to your tweets, no, Of course i will not be interviewing children from the school. I do not think that is appropriate at this time.
    3:12 PM – 14 Dec 12

    Bill O’Reilly is interviewing a parent and her child on FNC.
    Not sure he should be doing that.

  99. @blue

    You’re operating on such a deliberately vague level, overgeneralizing to the point of “the people”, that it’s difficult to have a serious conversation with you. But your argument there is at least approaching a coherent line of reasoning, rather than just mock horror and outrage being employed to tell someone to shut up.

    But I don’t think it’s that ‘they’ have no plans. You just don’t like what their plans would entail, nor do you think their plans would be effective at stopping such crimes. That’s fine, and you may even be right. I just don’t get why you and many on your side aren’t confident enough to have that debate openly, without the don’t dare mention that yet stuff. Whether I like it or not, a firm majority of the U.S. population is with you on gun rights, as opposed to someone like Alex Wagner, who believes that the 2nd Amendment should be repealed.

  100. savefarris Says:

    the National Rifle Association has yet to issue a statement offering condolences to the families of the children slain or a statement condemning today’s senseless act of violence.

    Nor Activision, makers of Call of Duty. Or the Connecticut Sun #justasrelevant

  101. What plans are you talking about? I have seen no one offer any gun control plans, other than “take them all away,” and that plan isn’t serious enough to really discuss.

  102. Did the gunman play Call Of Duty before murdering 20 children?

  103. Mr. Lanza’s three guns belonged to his mother, a schoolteacher. Curious that she had three guns, and this in the very blue state of Connecticut.

  104. FACTS: 74% of registered National Rifle Association (NRA) members support requiring criminal background checks of anyone purchasing a gun. 71% of registered NRA members believe individuals on the terrorist watch list should not be able to purchase firearms. 74% of registered NRA members believe CCW permits should only be granted to applicants who have completed gun safety training. The NRA opposes all three of the mentioned common-sense regulations, in spite of those regulations having support from an overwhelming majority of responsible gun owners.

  105. You must have to work hard to remain that willfully ignorant, believing that specific gun control policy proposals aren’t made (and implemented) all the time, and always vigorously fought by the gun lobby using tactics you seem pretty familiar with.

    This isn’t about whether you consider them “serious enough”, another poor attempt at moving the goal posts. This is about the straw man fallacy of you stating that no one in favor of gun control measures ever presents plans.

    The Federal Assault Weapons Ban was signed into law in 1994, and expired a decade later. There have been frequent attempts to renew it, and lots of lobbying dollars spent opposing it. Bans of varying severity are in place in many states and cities (set aside most of the rest of the world). Gun show loopholes remain open. Gun control advocates argue for more stringent licensing, registration, background checks, waiting periods, magazine capacity limits, restrictions on carrying, etc. Amazingly, gun control advocates argue for a multitude of laws that would make obtaining and using firearms more difficult. Gun rights advocates tend to oppose such measures.

    But again, if any of these issues were introduced today by liberal news hosts and commentators, you’d revert to calling them disgusting in their insensitivity.

  106. “Gun rights advocates tend to oppose such measures.”

    Actually, seems most pro-gun people support these measures. It’s just an extreme minority. But that’s who the NRA represents, an extreme minority. Much like these TEA Party groups spend a lot of money to push the message of an extreme fringe group.

    I think NRA members need to know that the NRA isn’t fighting for responsible firearm use… they want firearms in as many hands as possible, regardless of how much blood is shed. They’re protecting the financial interests of the gun manufacturers and ammunition manufacturers.

    They know this stuff they say about Obama rounding up everyones’ guns isn’t true, but when they say it, gun sales go up.

    Actual gun owners need to speak out against the NRA.

  107. My other favorite asinine justification offered by the gun rights folks is that no law can stop someone hell-bent on killing. Forget that there all sorts of quantifiable ways in which restrictions can and do prevent or limit the carnage. Just think about the logic. That’s the test of whether something is worthy of being illegal? As long as nobody could ever possibly violate it.

  108. @Andy

    You made some great points about the cognitive dissonance that I didn’t see until after my posts.

  109. I also should have made it clear that I’m talking about gun rights absolutists, not just sympathizers. I have little issue with the majority of gun owners, aside from their ignorance of what the organizations representing actually advocate for, which is what Andy is talking about.

  110. And which of those would or could have had an impact today?

    I think the NRA, much like other Unions, have gotten too big and don’t represent the interests of their members. You have to keep promising more and more, and trying to get new stuff… or else people grow bored and tired of paying dues. As such, the NRA has had to be more fringe than reality or popularity requires.

  111. Call me when gun owners remove their NRA stickers and admit Wayne LaPierre is a fcking lunatic.

  112. They sooner they ditch that show, the better.

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