Free for All: 09/21/10

What’s on your mind?

82 Responses to “Free for All: 09/21/10”

  1. Joe S. is still calling Christine O’Donnell “Christine McDonald” and thinking it is funny. Today Chris Matthews has Bill Maher on his show and Maher apparently will reveal what else he knows about Ms. O’Donnell. If I didn’t know any better, I’d say Maher is trying to get O’Donnell elected. This is just the kind of thing voters hate – rich, insulated Hollywood liberals tearing down conservative candidates. And it’s the kind of thing that MAY get O’Donnell elected. Maher and Matthews will never complain, however, about Mr. Coons claiming to be a Marxist many years ago. As Glenn Beck said yesterday about O’Donnell and Coons: I’d like to know if she is a good witch or a bad witch? I’ve met good witches but I’ve never met a good Marxist.

  2. Carol, why are you putting yourself through this when you could be watching Kiran Chetry get on John Roberts’ nerves? Morning Joe (thankfully) comes on too early for me, so I’ve missed Joe’s inexplicable “McDonald” hilarity. Mika needs to explain to him that if you drink until 2am, you’ll still be drunk at 6.

  3. “Mika needs to explain to him that if you drink until 2am, you’ll still be drunk at 6.” – joeremi

    That’s pretty funny and probably explains a lot about Joe. I record it; I don’t get up that early to watch it. But thanks for thinking of my mental health.

    As far as Chetry and Roberts: I don’t like either of them. At least MJ puts the crazy stuff right out there for the audience to see. Unlike CNN which is making us all wonder what was going on. I personally think Chetry gave Roberts a Sharon Stone-like flash. But I haven’t been wondering about it too much, except to say that Roberts should have been reprimanded for saying something like that on the air. WE couldn’t see what Chetry was doing, so he should have kept quiet about it.

  4. I’m semi-serious about Joe. I’ve seen him stumble in late several times, mumbling about a “late night”. Considering how infrequently I watch, I find it a little alarming that I’ve encountered it as often as I have. Everybody has a right to party, but geez, mate, you have to be on TV at 6am! There aint enough Starbucks in the world gonna clear that up that early..

  5. “but I’ve never met a good Marxist.”
    Start of rant.
    There are a number of descriptors that people use to seriously describe politicians that really are either just silly or stupid or both and I put Marxist on that list.
    Others that come to mind are fascist, war-monger, terrorist sympathizer, anti-American, baby killer, retarded, McCarthyite, communist, fill in the blank hater, pro tax, anti job, racist or reverse racist, whore and any version of Hitler.
    Politicians of either party are, almost without exception, none of these things and to repeatedly call them these offensive names just shows a lack of respect and lack of knowledge about those serving in government. Call them lazy, call them crazy, nutty, stupid, loonie, right-wing or left-wing it’s all OK but when you disparage there loyalty to the country or say they are something offensive then you take away from any legitimate argument you have and just become a name caller.
    I’m sure I may have done this myself in the past and if so I apologize.
    End of rant.

  6. There’s a story/interview on Huffpost today with Michael Ware where he accuses CNN of refusing to air a possible war crime that he witnessed & videoed.
    With the context of the current trail of accused thrill kill soldiers on now and the flap over the sniper fire incident awhile back it puts CNN in a difficult position.
    I’ll be interested in how they deal with it and if other news nets run with the story or stay away for fear of getting burned themselves.

  7. FWIW, I liked Fritz’s rant.

  8. ^ I can see why CNN stayed away from it. That’s a pretty murky story about an armed person in an al Qaeda-controlled area during a very violent year. One man’s “war crime” is another’s “shoot him before he shoots me.” They call it “war” for a reason.

  9. fritz3, Mr. Coons DID call himself a Marxist at one point in his life. And Glenn Beck said he never met a good one. Why the rant? Would you have ranted if Beck had said he never met a good Nazi?

  10. The only thing about Maher showing those old clips..is it just reminds everyone that he once had entertaining program instead of the crapfeast he’s on now.

  11. …crapfeast he’s on now.

    I don’t believe for a minute you ever thought Bill Maher was entertaining.

  12. ^The new show isn’t all that different than the old one as far as can tell.
    Re Ware: You may be right Joe; and Ware is suffering from PTSD now so may just be trying to clear his conscience.
    Still I don’t think CNN can sit on the tapes if they show anything like what Ware says they do. At the least the military will have to get involved now and CNN will have to decide whether or not to give them the tapes. It’s not going to go away any time soon.
    It would be an interesting topic for ‘Reliable Sources’ but I highly doubt Kurtz will touch it.

  13. …but I highly doubt Kurtz will touch it.

    Not a chance in hell.

  14. Megyn Kelly has a cold today. Hope someone caught her coughing and her mic being cut off and then her going to commercial after she still was coughing when mic was back on. After commercials, Trace came back on from Los Angeles with Bell, California talk. He finally tossed it back to Megyn and then Megyn went on about her Cold then back to News.

  15. I love the dress with the extra flap across the neck to signify “sick”. Megyn doesn’t miss a single dramatic flair, does she?

  16. — cold —

    What the hell? Get a damn substitute. ”I’m coughing my brains out, but by God I’m the only one who can do the job.” Get another blond. I’m sure they have spares.

  17. “I’m sure they have spares.”
    🙂

  18. Some that are still in the wrapping..

  19. Will someone please remind Shannon Bream that Joe Lieberman is a conservative Independent? In response to a plea from Dick Durbin about something concerning children born here of illegal immigrants, she compared his language to Lieberman’s support of the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell…calling it language “Democrats are using”. More subtle right-wing bias from Shannon. She’s good.

  20. Rachael Maddow was just on with Chris Jansing to cover the DADT repeal vote in the Senate.
    It lost but you would think by her demeanor that it had passed by a wide margin.
    The was no anger just resignation and a knowledge that it was only a matter of time; and not much time at that.
    In reality this is good news for the Democrats as the Republicans have not only voted against the military (the Defense Authorization Act) but also against a very popular position (repeal of DADT has somewhere around 55%-75% support with Americans) and a very popular position with Hispanics (The Dream Act). Because all these positions were supported by or even co-authored by some Republicans it will be easy to scapegoat them for this vote.
    Rachael hinted she might have something special on her show tonight re this decision so who knows maybe even a visit by ‘Lady Gaga. That would be interesting viewing.

  21. Will someone please remind Shannon Bream that Joe Lieberman is a conservative Independent?

    You have got to be kidding again? It’s so hard to tell.

    Lieberman a conservative?

    Americans for Democratic Action (a liberal group): Libermann last year, 95% liberal voting record.

    NARAL 100%
    Planned Parenthood 100%

    and on and on and on….

    Liebermann’s voting record: Interest Group Ratings.

    He’s a center-liberal.

  22. ^ And that, comrade, is how the ‘center’ keeps moving to the left.

  23. Joe Lieberman votes for what is the best interest of Joe Lieberman. If he were a conservative, a liberal or a moderate you might be able to have some respect for him; but he’s only interest is in satisfying his personal ego and he votes for whatever gratifies that goal.

  24. And that, comrade, is how the ‘center’ keeps moving to the left

    Yeah, he’s closer to being a liberal with some centrist views but I didn’t want to push it.

    Supporting the Iraq War automatically makes you a conservative to some people.

  25. Joe Lieberman votes for what is the best interest of Joe Lieberman

    Right. Supporting the Iraq War these few years was really a winning issue on his part. In Connecticut, too. Lots of rightwingers to win over there.

    If all he cared about was his political fortunes he’d have turned on the war like the other liberals – Biden and Clinton and Kerry et al. – who initially supported it and then ran away when it started going bad.

    The man is the truest profile in courage we’ve had in a long time.

  26. It’s a similar mentality to that which labels Obama a centrist, because he can’t go left as fast as they like. You know, that pesky thing about the will of the people.

  27. Lieberman

    You can argue his voting record all you want, but he’s an Independent who endorsed John McCain at the GOP convention. Using him as a reference for “Democrats” is bad journalism, and Bream knows better. She does this crap on purpose.

  28. Funny, I didn’t hear her call it language ‘Democrats are using’. I heard her quote Durbin about the Dream act, comparing the language to Lieberman’s about DADT, noting how they both used personal stories to make their points. And then she said you can expect to hear more of this sort of language, personal stories, from the Democrats as they continue to argue for the two proposals.

    SHe didn’t use JL as a ‘reference’ for Democrats, but as an example of the similarity of argumentation for the two proposals. Lieberman was in fact taking the Democratic side in the issue, and I’ll bet his language was pretty representative of what the others were saying. But that really doesn’t matter, because Bream never claimed he was a Dem, or representative of Dems, or a reference point for Dems. You’re straining to uncover something that isn’t there.

  29. You can argue his voting record all you want, but he’s an Independent who endorsed John McCain at the GOP convention.

    So, looking at someone’s actual voting record to determine his or her political leanings is a meaningless exercise?

    He defended Bush against vicious attacks and the Iraq War and to some people, that’s just not acceptable.

  30. J$, this is the second time you’ve contended with how I heard something from FNC. The first time, it turned out to be a later rewrite of something Eric Shawn said earlier. I know what I heard. She used Lieberman’s language as an example of what Democrats are saying. The implication was that someone who is not a Democrat, is. It’s a minor point, bit indicative of the subtle shadings Bream is known for, such as “Obama is pro-abortion”. She knows what she’s doing.

  31. ^ I’m obviously not stating what seems obvious to me. Lieberman is in support of a liberal bill; Bream is distancing herself from him as the Republican most libs think he is, and trying to say “he’s really just a dumb Democrat”.

  32. “Former Democratic Party Vice Presidential Nominee” pretty much super glues his ‘Democratic Party’ credentials. Joe Lieberman stayed true to his liberal values as his party has continued to drift toward the left rocky shore.

  33. As you may gather I’m no Lieberman fan.
    He’s been a hawk on all the wars in the middle east and I assume it’s because he very pro Israel and gets a a lot of his financial backing from the Jewish community.
    As for the people Connecticut; I don’t think he cares what they think. He’s unlikely to win re-election and he knows this is his last go round.
    His voting hasn’t been either liberal or conservative; he votes on what’s best for him and in a way he can poke a stick in the eye of those who didn’t support him in his last bid for election in Connecticut; thus his support for McCain in ’08’.

  34. “Former Democratic Party Vice Presidential Nominee” pretty much super glues his ‘Democratic Party’ credentials.

    Bull. He showed up at the convention in support of McCain, and everybody knows he expected to be the Republican Vice Presidential Nominee.

  35. I forgot to mention that if Charlie Crist wins in Florida in November the Republicans will have their own version of Lieberman and will be just as PO’d with him as I am with Lieberman.

  36. Joe you are misremembering that Eric Shawn business, confusing our discussion with the fact that he later did another hit and it was worded differently. There was no issue before that later piece that we weren’t talking about the same thing.

    “Bream is distancing herself from him as the Republican most libs think he is, and trying to say “he’s really just a dumb Democrat”.

    Oy. The mind reels.

    Let it be as you say.

  37. He’s been a hawk on all the wars in the middle east and I assume it’s because he very pro Israel and gets a a lot of his financial backing from the Jewish community.

    Simply amazing.

    He supported “all the wars in the middle east” (that would be two wars if you’re counting) because he gets “financial backing from the Jewish community.”

    He didn’t support the Gulf and Iraq wars because he thought they were in our national interest. No, he did it because of Jewish money.

    Ye olde Jews and their money.

    Just amazing.

  38. Yeah Fritz, the Jewish angle is a bit much. I believe Joe supports stupid wars for honorable reasons.

  39. Oy. The mind reels.

    Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out there. 😉

  40. Larry Summers resigns. Bye b****!

  41. He showed up at the convention in support of McCain

    Rephrasing, he showed up at the Republican convention in opposition to Obama. I believe recent history has so far shown that the senator from Connecticut made the right call.

  42. I believe Joe supports stupid wars for honorable reasons.

    The Gulf War was stupid?

    As to the Iraq War, our current VP and Secretary of State both supported removing Saddam. So did Kerry and Rockefeller and Levin and on and on……

    So what’s the source of the Lieberman anger? He defended Bush?

    That’s it, isn’t it? When Bush was being smeared, Lieberman defended him. And one thing you can’t do in liberal circles is defend Bush.

    Or defend Obama in conservative circles. I know firsthand about that issue.

  43. ^ You defended Obama? Crikey.

  44. It lost but you would think by her demeanor that it had passed by a wide margin.

    She’s right – it’s going to pass and will do so with significant Repub support. Just not yet. With most independents, Repubs win this political mini-battle in the Senate. Sen. Reid could easily have allowed debate and voting on amendments to ending DADT (I reject the term “repeal” for this because it is factually inaccurate), most (if not all) of these would have failed and, in the end, there would have been a vote and it would have passed.

    Veterans and supporters of American military personnel get really peeved whenever defence authorisation bills are used for political fencing. Bad move by Reid.

  45. I’m just saying Lieberman is a very strong supporter of Israel.
    I can’t think of any issue where he voted against a position that was supported by the Israeli government. There may be some but I don’t know of any.
    I’m not going to defend any of the Dems who supported the war. It was all about self interest and fear of being on the wrong side of history. As it turned out they ended up on the wrong side anyway.
    The Jewish financial support goes with Israeli support. It had nothing to do with why he voted for the war but it was a side benefit. The only reason I mentioned it is the pro Israeli lobby is very powerful in Washington.
    What smear of Bush did Lieberman defend? I don’t remember that happening
    Joe was right about the McCain VP thing I had forgotten that.

  46. ^Fritz is right about many of the Dems mentioned had originally supported the war for political expediency, then later opposed it for the same reason. When it comes to sending American lives to fight a war, that is truly a failure “to execute the duties of the office…”

  47. “Veterans and supporters of American military personnel get really peeved whenever defence authorisation bills are used for political fencing. Bad move by Reid.”
    It’s been done for years. The original DADT bill was in the DAB. McCain put his soft money ban bill in the DAB. Both the DADT ‘Repeal” and the Dream act are related to military affairs so at least its got some relationship.
    I do agree in principal although I doubt Reid or the Dems will pay a price at the polls.
    Reid offered the Republicans three amendments including straight up & down votes on the Dream Act and the DADT ‘repeal’. McConnell wanted 20 amendments which Reid refused as that would delay things for weeks and even if he had agreed they would then ask for 50. That’s whats been happening all year. It was just a way to obstruct which was the whole idea.
    I almost feel sorry for Collins whose now made to look like a hypocrite by her party.

  48. I don’t agree with the “political expediency” argument. I think they fell for the post-9/11 and “mushroom cloud over New York City” hysteria of the Bush administration, then snapped out of it. Just like the American public.

  49. You missed the point, fritz. There’s nothing wrong with those issues being included in DAB; Reid made the issue a poison pill. By simply allowing normal senate rules of order, it would have passed. Sen. Collins’ statement critical of Reid is what will be heard and it’s powerful.

  50. — supported the war for political expediency, then later opposed it for the same reason. —

    They were for it before they were against it, and tried to build their own morality around it. Bush didn’t have the luxury of following along.

  51. Is the Republican Party really going to hitch opposition to the health care bill to the one part of it most Americans seem to like? Crazy.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/21/angle-suggests-free-marke_n_733545.html

  52. It would be wonderful if the free market system would finally be tried for healthcare. There hasn’t been a free-market insurance system within our lifetimes.

  53. I just don’t get Sharron Angle. She opposes unemployment insurance for out-of-work people who are obviously sitting on their arses; opposes abortion even if a girl is raped by her father because “God will turn lemons into lemonade”; and thinks health insurers shouldn’t be required to cover people with a pre-existing condition. Oh, and Social Security is crap, too, so screw the old people. Who exactly does she care about besides Sharron Angle and people with 25 bucks in their hand? I can’t believe such a nasty person won an election. Some voters are STUPID.

  54. “Sen. Collins’ statement critical of Reid is what will be heard and it’s powerful.”
    Gee Reid played politics with the issue. I’m outraged I say outraged. 🙂
    I haven’t heard her statement yet and I pay attention to this subject; so I don’t know how much it will play with the public in general.
    What the take away for me is the polls say the public wants DADT repealed and the Republicans obstructed the vote. There are no votes for the Republicans to win. They have all the pro DADT votes already. The ads write themselves.
    At the very least it motivates the youth & Hispanic vote for the Democrats. That can’t be bad; at least for us liberals.

  55. “and thinks health insurers should’t be required to cover people with a pre-existing condition.”
    That’s the same position Huck laid out at the VVS on the weekend. I wonder if theirs a connection? A new Tea Party talking point, maybe.

  56. Fritz, her answer was in response to Huck’s comment. I doubt they cooerdinated it, but it looks like a theme the Tea Party is happy to run with. The overriding Tea Party theme seems to be “we’ve got ours, you go screw”.

  57. I don’t like the idea of of denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, either, but I also understand that banning the practice guarantees that far more people, those who can barely afford the policies they have now, will lose them. And remember, most of the pre-existing condition clauses are only delays in coverage, not permanent exclusions.

    One Repub proposal was to, instead of banning the practice outright, require ins companies (and employers who sponsor them) to offer a temporary higher-cost option with that coverage, along with other “premium” insurance coverages to attract the wealthier who don’t have pre-existing conditions so there’s somebody on board to pay for it all.

  58. Al, you obviously are qualified to provide the interesting insights you have on health care, so – for clarity – my side of this discussion is focused on certain Republicans’ presentations to the public. Y’all are free to discuss the plans themselves (or anything else). Just wanted to clarify where I’m coming from.

  59. I understand, Joe. Still, much of what is claimed to be certain Republican presentations is distorted through the ears of some liberals. Huckabee’s statement, for example. – when you brush away all the weeds, he’s right.

  60. I know I know, but it’s the presentation with the weeds that makes them seem like discompassionate p****s to anyone but the true believers. I expected it from Angle. Huck surprised me.

  61. President Carter made a bone-headed statement claiming that he
    is “a superior former president”. I was not at all surprised he said that. Still, when his spokesperson later clarified his remarks to say he really meant that he was in a superior “position” (or something like that) to do good things than other past presidents because of his Carter Centre, I owe him the benefit of doubt. Him saying that would make sense.

    Along with the ability our ears give us to hear what someone says, we have brains that gives us the ability to discern what is meant. “Civil discourse” implies using both abilities.

  62. Where’s Waldo in this picture?

    “Long before America was even an idea, this land of plenty was home to many peoples. The British and French, the Dutch and Spanish, to Mexicans, to countless Indian tribes. We all shared the same land.”

    Long before America….. Mexicans were here?

    Imagine Bush saying something like this (okay, he probably did).

    This was President Obama.

  63. Glad to see the Cheerleader-in-chief hard at work putting America first.

  64. ^Sorry Steve I must be dumb; but is there a point here?

  65. “Long before America was even an idea, this land of plenty was home to many peoples. The British and French, the Dutch and Spanish, to Mexicans, to countless Indian tribes. We all shared the same land.” – President Obama

    Glenn Reynolds responded to this by saying:
    “And a savvy politician is always careful to point that out to Americans whose votes he wants. And who don’t know any
    history.”

  66. Bob Woodward’s “Obama’s Wars” review in NYT is interesting. I assume he’ll be making the cable and talk show rounds soon. I know Woodward was allowed access and wrote a book during Bush’s term, but I don’t like us knowing all this stuff. Not just the semi-secrets but even some of the in-fighting can have unintended consequences when read abroad.

  67. And sometimes we get caught saying what we really mean. Carter said he stood apart from Clinton and the others because he considers himself a superior former President than them. Not only do I believe he feels that way..look at the lineup: some Republicans and Bill Clinton. He considers himself superior while in office, too.

  68. Obama from the Woodward book:
    We can absorb a terrorist attack. We’ll do everything we can to prevent it, but even a 9/11, even the biggest attack ever . . . we absorbed it and we are stronger.

    On Afghanistan:
    I’m not doing long-term nation-building. I am not spending a trillion dollars.

    Total costs of the 9/11 attacks? Nearly $2 trillion according to this report (http://www.iags.org/costof911.html)

    You can pay them now or pay them later.

    He’s not a good President, is he? Not terrible, not evil, not a Marxist, not destroying the country. He’s just not fit for the job.

  69. “He’s not a good President, is he? Not terrible, not evil, not a Marxist, not destroying the country. He’s just not fit for the job.”
    That’s a bit unfair steve. He’s been in office for less than two years and he’s not as skilled as Clinton but compared to Bush /Chaney or McCain/Palin I take him in a flash.
    BTW is it me or is McCain starting to look like he’s losing it; perhaps the very early stages of dementia.

  70. How many of us are gonna die in the name of making us ‘stronger’?

  71. Obama: He believes America is strong, and didn’t want to waste a trillion dollars on a worthless endeavor. Works for me.

  72. That 9/11 quote needs a lot more context. I refuse to believe he meant “we don’t have to fight, we’re strong enough to take it like passive idiots”. It sounds like generic “Americans are resilient” President-speak to me.

  73. If it’s not clear to you, then it’s sure as Hell not clear to them. God help us.

  74. If it’s not clear to you, then it’s sure as Hell not clear to them. God help us.

    I have no idea what that means.

  75. them

    The American president’s audience always includes America’s allies, enemies, and potential enemies. More than any other person on Earth, a clarity of message in his words can save lives.

  76. I believe Steve pulled a private conversation from Woodward’s book, and I understood it fine.

  77. We can absorb a terrorist attack. We’ll do everything we can to prevent it, but even a 9/11, even the biggest attack ever . . . we absorbed it and we are stronger.

    I also thought it a private conversation but, apparently, those words were spoken by the president to Woodward during an interview of a couple months ago.

  78. I also thought it a private conversation but, apparently, those words were spoken by the president to Woodward during an interview of a couple months ago.

    Which I’m sure he intended to have understood within the context of whatever endless answer he was giving Woodward. I have no idea why Presidents talk to him. They should no a snippet is going to get broadcast to the world, and bastardized by hacks like Gretchen Carlson.

  79. …and I should know the difference between “know” and “no”. My kingdom…

  80. The president’s remarks to Woodward in context… not so bad – via Andy Levy:

    http://www.slate.com/id/2268072/

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