Cause and Effect?

From an email by J$

You recall the phony flap about a ‘leaked’ Fox News Watch video, where they were discussing Sarah Palin during a commercial break? (I say it’s a phony flap because FNW has been posting those commercial break videos for years; there’s nothing surreptitious or leaked about them.) Anyhow, the part that might interest you is that last week, and this week, Jon Scott did NOT invite viewers to go online and watch the break videos. That’s probably because there were no break videos posted last week or this week either. Make of that what you will.

I make lots out of that. But what it means is another matter…

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51 Responses to “Cause and Effect?”

  1. I don’t understand the “flap” around that. The on-air portion wasn’t much kinder to Palin. They hammered her for the reality show. It wasn’t a secret that that group wasn’t impressed with her.

  2. ^ Very true… but when there are a number of people who are willing to lie and distort in an effort to smear FNC and Palin, who needs the truth?!

    These are the types of things that FOX fans gets very upset about. An outright lie, which gets picked up and rebroadcast among the haters.

    I surely hope that FNC doesn’t make any editorial decisions or programming decisions based on that non-incident.

  3. Uh..what “lie” are you talking about?

  4. Well, he might be talking about people who claimed the video shows what Fox commenters say when they don’t know they’re being recorded. That lie was all over the place, including repeated claims to that effect by Keith Olbermann.

  5. ^ That would be the one!

  6. I’m not sure that’s quite the ‘lie” you think it is. The only one speaking on that clip that seemed to have a sense of a hot mic was Scott, who laughed quietly and nervously. I’m not convinced the rest remembered that the breaks were viewable online.

  7. I assumed they didn’t run with the internet feed this week because their crews were bugging out early for Thanksgiving weekend. I haven’t paid enough attention to whether or not this happened last year or for other holidays. We’ll see if they have it next week.

  8. You’re not convinced they remembered? They’ve been doing it for over two years. Every member of that panel has been on the program many times. It’s announced (or at least used to be) on the air, right in front of the panel, just before the break starts. And yet all of a sudden the panelists didn’t ‘remember’ because a bunch of people lied about the video? Wanting to make something so doesn’t make it so.

  9. By the way, here is exactly what was said on the air, in front of the panel, on that very broadcast:

    JON SCOTt: But first, check out the new web site. You can keep an eye on the big media story in the “Watch List” section. And you can also go behind the scenes and see the discussions you have in here during the commercial breaks. Always very interesting stuff.

  10. Yes, J$, I’m not convinced. For one thing, I watch it every week, and Liz Trotta isn’t on very often. She had the most caustic comments, and does not appear to be aware that her mic is hot. It’s not much of a flap, because the on-air comments were pretty rough, too, but I simply don’t believe everyone on that set remembered they were viewable online.

  11. I thought the whole initial thing was kinda silly. Given that it was Liz Trotta, I might have expected much worse. She has a nasty, cynical-streak that I could really get used-to.

  12. Unfortunately, J$ and INB, you can’t convince a true believer, even though what you’re saying is the truth.

  13. These are the types of things that FOX fans gets very upset about. An outright lie, which gets picked up and rebroadcast among the haters.

    As if the other networks (and their fans) who get lied about by Fox don’t get upset about anything? Stop acting like Fox is like some innocent victim in unfair attacks, and never does it back. This whole point regarding FNW is valid, but getting offended as if Fox is the only one to deal with BS is ridiculous. And when you say “FOX fans”, you mean yourself, too, right, INB?

    By the way, when I posted the video on my blog, I labeled it as “off-camera chatter” (literally in the headline of the article)… and found it on Fox News’ YouTube channel. I wasn’t sure whether they knew they were being recorded or not, but it was still interesting. I just think they don’t want to announce its existence anymore because somebody on there could say something bad on a subject, like Palin, and they don’t want their colleague to be criticized like that. Who can blame them?

  14. She has a nasty, cynical-streak that I could really get used-to.

    And she doesn’t seem to really care for Palin, either. I remember Trotta going after her very hard when she resigned as governor. It was a sight to watch.

  15. To follow up on my earlier comment, I rest my case.

  16. I just watched the clip again and re-read some of the internet chatter about it. The hub-bub had more to do with the clip being referred to as a “leak”, which was just plain false. Also, nothing said by any of them was particularly harsh, and they were discussing others’ reviews of the TLC programme – which is the whole point of the show. So I don’t think it matters whether Liz Trotta thought her mic was hot. She’d have said that during the programme.

    To the extent that they were critical of another Fox News contributor, I think it’s fair to say that Fox News Watch has a history of not sparing their own.

  17. Unfortunately, J$ and INB, you can’t convince a true believer, even though what you’re saying is the truth.

    There’s no “truth” to be found here, son, unless the participants tell us what happened. It’s a minor subject that I have one opinion on, and J$ has another. His claim is that some on the left “lied” about people being caught blabbing when they didn’t realize their mic was hot. My reasoned conclusion is it’s not likely those things would have been said in that way by those people if they all had remembered they were “on”. It’s just my opinion. The larger question is: why is it so hard for you guys to ever find a flaw with FNC? It’s weird.

  18. those things would have been said in that way by those people if they all had remembered they were “on”.

    I suppose you could make a case for that argument. Since they were much MORE critical of Sarah Palin in the on-air segment that follows. So apparently when they are ‘on’ they are MORE likely to criticize Palin. But then there goes the whole Olbermann argument out the window again.

    why is it so hard for you guys to ever find a flaw with FNC?

    In addition to the false premise, the question is irrelevant. Why should anyone want to pick a flaw about FNC that isn’t a flaw at all? That’s something that has been deliberately mischaracterized to smear FNC? I suppose for Fox haters it’s perfectly OK to make up stuff and lie to attack FNC, but I kind of like to keep my eye out for the fraudulent attacks and pounce on ’em when I spot ’em.

  19. J$, I’ve never heard you criticize FNC. I don’t read your blog much, so maybe you have, but I haven’t seen it here. You treat them as a victim to be defended at all costs.

    I don’t agree that the on-air comments were worse. The cracks about her voice wouldn’t have been acceptable.

  20. “J$, I’ve never heard you criticize FNC. I don’t read your blog much…”

    Well, that’s the problem right there. You should devote the next week to pouring over all the posts! I could use the hits.

  21. ^ That’s my problem? Now you tell me..

  22. joeremi Says:
    November 28, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    …I simply don’t believe everyone on that set remembered they were viewable online.

    Which you must admit is something you have NO proof of, NO evidence of, and have just made up to fit the situation!

    I believe that when Keith Olbermann, or Tameron Hall, or Anderson Cooper deliver the news… they’re stomping on babies under the desk. I don’t have any actual proof of that… but I believe it, so it should be respected.

    Dumb.

    ProgLib Says:
    November 28, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    As if the other networks (and their fans) who get lied about by Fox don’t get upset about anything?

    Like what lies, exactly? We have actual evidence in this story of folks (KO, at minimum) lying about FNC. What do you have to show that FNC has lied about other networks?

    Stop acting like Fox is like some innocent victim in unfair attacks,

    Clearly, I’m in the wrong here. FNC, even when getting lied about, is the bad guy. Why? Because they are ALWAYS the bad guy, right? The truth doesn’t really matter.

    …and never does it back.

    Sure would like to see some of that evidence.

    And when you say “FOX fans”, you mean yourself, too, right, INB?

    Um… yes? I am a fan of FOX News Channel. Is that a surprise to you, or does that somehow invalidate my opinion?

    By the way, when I posted the video on my blog, I labeled it as “off-camera chatter” (literally in the headline of the article)… and found it on Fox News’ YouTube channel.

    So… you thought that on the FOX News YouTube Channel, they’d post video of their folks talking, when they weren’t supposed to be recording? I mean, it’s things like this which show just how foolish this issue is, and how out of your way you have to go to make this look like something it’s not.

    I wasn’t sure whether they knew they were being recorded or not, but it was still interesting.

    Which is why they posted it online in the first part… it was interesting.

    I just think they don’t want to announce its existence anymore because somebody on there could say something bad on a subject, like Palin, and they don’t want their colleague to be criticized like that.

    Even though they continued the discussion ON camera later, and (according to everyone here) were harsher then?

    Who can blame them?

    Clearly, you can… and will… no matter what.

    joeremi Says:
    November 28, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    There’s no “truth” to be found here, son, unless the participants tell us what happened. It’s a minor subject that I have one opinion on, and J$ has another.

    False. There’s what happened, and what you’ve decided happened. You have NO PROOF of anything! There is ample proof that this was not a mistake, and that the talent knew they were going to be recorded. However, you’ve decided to believe something different.

    You’re making it up… it’s fiction.

    The larger question is: why is it so hard for you guys to ever find a flaw with FNC? It’s weird.

    If you define “find a flaw” as, “manufacture flaw,” then no… I don’t find any with FNC. Nor do I find them with the other network. However, I try to be a little more realistic and ethical than to use my own biases to create fictional accounts of things I have no proof of.

    I suppose the larger larger question is, why are you fairly consistently willing to accept the far-left line or “personal opinion,” over actual evidence when it comes to attacking FNC?

  23. I accept the obvious in front of my face, Blue. I’ve seen th clip several times. They giggled about her voice, which was harsher than their criticism of her travel show on-air. There’s no “fact” here about what they did or did not know..there’s only opinions about the two possibilities: 1. They all remembered they had hot mics, and sneered at Palin anyway, or, 2. At least one of them – say, maybe a woman in her 60s who doesn’t do the show much, and doesn’t give a flip what Jon Scott is saying into the camera before a break – forgot about the breaks being online and let loose on a pseudo-politician she considers a blithering idiot. My judgment is the same as KO’s: somebody forgot. It’s an opinion. Simple.

  24. joeremi Says:
    November 28, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Unless you’ve become a mind reader, and know that Trotta hadn’t heard what Scott had just said, or was completely unfamiliar with the way that show is run, you’re just making stuff up.

  25. What effing part of “it’s my opinion, based on what I saw, and my knowledge of human nature” do you not understand?. It’s not even important outside of your predilection to call people liars over it. I don’t believe the woman remembered her mic was hot. Period. Her actions do not reflect that she did. If you believe differently, fine, but I didn’t “lie” about it, and neither did Keith. What is it with you that you can’t accept that people can understand there’s more than one possibility, and come to different conclusions?

  26. While awaiting tonight’s episode of Sarah Palin’s Back Yard I thought it might be fun to hop on ICN and irritate Joe. Alas, I’m not needed.

    So… it’s nice we’re having weather.

  27. I’m skipping Alaska this week. FNC promo-ed When Vacations Attack on The Travel Channel tonight. Jeeps tumbling down mountains. THAT’S entertainment.

  28. Tumbling Jeeps does sound fun. I really should pay more attention to promos. OK, mutli-channel dvr is going to get some work in.

  29. Am I the only nut who thinks that Liz Trotta and Bernard Goldberg should have a weekend show, maybe book-ended with News Watch? Man, that would be classic. There would be blood on the walls, most of it coming from Fox itself. That’s just too good, I need to go calm myself..

  30. joeremi Says:
    November 28, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    What effing part of “it’s my opinion, based on what I saw, and my knowledge of human nature” do you not understand?

    Isn’t it YOU who is often seen saying, “You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts!” Well, to come to your opinion, you have to make up certain “facts” while ignoring others. You’re entitled to your opinion… but it’s based on fiction.

    It’s not even important outside of your predilection to call people liars over it.

    So when the websites called it a “leak,” that wasn’t a lie?

    I don’t believe the woman remembered her mic was hot. Period. Her actions do not reflect that she did.

    What part of her actions suggest that she didn’t know? The fact that she said something YOU don’t think she’d say otherwise?! Again, you’re making stuff up!

    If you believe differently, fine, but I didn’t “lie” about it,

    No, you didn’t lie about it (I never said you did… but…

    …and neither did Keith.

    Except for where here called the video “outtakes,” which they weren’t… oh, and where he said they didn’t think they were being recorded. Now he could have the same (wrong) opinion that you do, but he couldn’t possible know what they knew (despite the evidence that they would HAVE to know, since Jon Scott had already said it, and are probably contractually informed), so for him to say that they thought their “mics were off,” is a lie.

    What is it with you that you can’t accept that people can understand there’s more than one possibility, and come to different conclusions?

    What I can’t accept is you manufacturing facts, while ignoring others, to fit your pathetic desire to attack FOX. You’re making it up… there’s nothing to support your “opinion,” and all available facts go against it.

  31. I have no interest in various anonymous websites calling it a leak. I don’t know which ones said it was, and they were wrong. You called Keith a liar for saying they appeared to not realize their mics were hot, when at least one of the participants appeared to some of us to not be aware of it. That’s not a lie..it’s an impression shared by many.

    The bottom line is..who cares? Your whole stupid premise is that I’m attacking Fox? Ask yourself something, Partisan. Why would I attack Fox for attacking Palin? I chimed in that afternoon about the on-air criticism of her show. Do you think I was bummed about it? When the online stuff was revealed, I did a backflip! What I’m attacking is some partisan Fox apologist coming here to call anyone who thinks some of those folks forgot their mics were hot LIARS.

  32. An addendum to your little fit about “leaks”. Non-FNC viewers encountered the clip on websites. They didn’t know there was a Foxnews.com feed, which makes ii an honest mistake, not a LIE. You know who else didn’t know about it? Me. I’ve been watching Fox News Watch for at least a year. I never noticed Jon Scott’s tag about the website. I thought it was just “come visit us at blah blah blah” like Red Eye does.

    Nobody lied. Some thought it was a leak, some think at least one of the participants forgot her mic was hot, and FOX NEWS BASHED THE HELL OUT OF SARAH PALIN. I love it.

  33. Well somebody took Fox’s posted video, downloaded it, and then reuploaded it without noting that it came from FNC all along. Presto! It became a leaked video! So there’s some lying going on here aside from all the people who fell for this bit of trickery.

  34. J$, I’m not going to get into those weeds. Obviously somewhere in the chain, somebody neglected to attribute the video correctly. Whether it was a “lie” or an oversight is worthless to pursue. I would say that most people who thought it was leaked were people like me that didn’t know about the feed.

    Which is weeds that have nothing to do with the fact that Blue thinks I’m attacking Fox for attacking Palin because I object to him calling anybody who thinks somebody got caught off guard with a hot mic a liar. The logic of that is bewildering.

  35. The larger question is: why is it so hard for you guys to ever find a flaw with FNC? It’s weird.

    This is an excellent question. It’s like FNC is a pro sports organization and you’re either on the team, or not on the team, no matter what the issue – FNC is always right and whoever criticizes them on any issue is a hater. Their PR seems to operate the same way. It’s bizarre to me.

  36. ^ Exactly! It’s like those guys who talk about football like they were in the game: “We kicked their asses today.” Uh, no..you were on the couch drinking beer. Those guys you don’t know played the game. You don’t owe them religious allegiance. It’s just highly paid people on TV..

  37. You ever get the feeling that the rest of the world is just undiagnosed?

  38. “….usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.”

    Criticism of Fox News is alive and well at J$P. More importantly, rigorous honesty is practiced by the proprietor. The truth is vehemently defended. Yet there is recognition that everyone makes mistakes. Promptly admitting and correcting, if needed, one’s mistakes is a requirement in order to establish and maintain integrity and credibility. What is not tolerated is purposeful misrepresentations (lies) and distortions, and a refusal to admit mistakes.

    That is why I prefer FNC. That is also why, after visiting J$P the first time, I’ve returned again and again. Not unlike Mom’s Place from Peter Gunn.

  39. Like what lies, exactly? We have actual evidence in this story of folks (KO, at minimum) lying about FNC. What do you have to show that FNC has lied about other networks?

    So are you actually denying that Fox News has ever lied about what other networks have said and done? Wow, INB, you just set yourself up so easily sometimes. I’ll go easy on you, since I know I can bust you up all day long. How about when Bill O’Reilly claimed that CNN didn’t cover the shooting, committed by Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, of Private William Long? O’Reilly claimed “only Anderson Cooper at 10 o’clock covered the story“. Then, after a spectacular smackdown by Rick Sanchez, O’Reilly comes back claiming (in a video posted by J$, ironically promoting his “misstatement“) a “rare correction” where he says “I was talking about primetime, but I did not say that“, when in fact he clearly said “all day” in the original segment. So, he basically lied in his “correction“, too. He just sets himself up for getting owned. With that, I’ve proven that Fox makes mistakes, too, as well as the rest of the media. Many don’t correct it, some do. But again, don’t paint Fox as some martyr of smear jobs, while never doing it themselves. That seems to be what you and J$ do for a living. I’ve called out MSNBC several times on their mistakes, as well. When have you ever corrected Fox on ANYTHING? Was it in this century?

    Clearly, I’m in the wrong here. FNC, even when getting lied about, is the bad guy. Why? Because they are ALWAYS the bad guy, right? The truth doesn’t really matter.

    Good job, INB. Admitting your wrong is always the first step to recovery. You should probably talk to Bill about a 12-step plan to actually admit when you’re wrong. By the way, I never said Fox did anything wrong here. I was merely pointing that they aren’t always the one enduring attacks, seeing as how they attack other networks unfairly, as I clearly showed. You obviously can’t handle the truth.

    Sure would like to see some of that evidence.

    Already done.

    Um… yes? I am a fan of FOX News Channel. Is that a surprise to you, or does that somehow invalidate my opinion?

    I was just curious, because I’ve never seen you actually say how much you love Fox News. You always come around to defend and apologize for them. Thanks for the admission, though. 🙂

    So… you thought that on the FOX News YouTube Channel, they’d post video of their folks talking, when they weren’t supposed to be recording?

    Yes, because clearly they weren’t talking TO the camera, they were acting like it wasn’t even there recording. That’s what I, and many others, assumed, and I considered it “off-camera chatter” for that very reason. I’ve seen many news programs in the past, where their tirades and blowups have been caught on live TV, or shown later. Take O’Reilly’s classic “I’LL DO IT LIVE!” blowup.

    I mean, it’s things like this which show just how foolish this issue is, and how out of your way you have to go to make this look like something it’s not.

    When did you become such a whiner? You’re spending way too much at Johnny’s site getting paranoid about nothing. He’s trained you well.

    Even though they continued the discussion ON camera later, and (according to everyone here) were harsher then?

    I didn’t read much of what the others here said. I just skimmed through. I, also, didn’t watch the ON-camera discussion, only the off-camera.

    Clearly, you can… and will… no matter what.

    Which is exactly what you do on almost every subject regarding Fox to rationalize their idiocy. Just look in the mirror, pal.

  40. Criticism of Fox News is alive and well at J$P. More importantly, rigorous honesty is practiced by the proprietor.

    How could there be any criticism of Fox at J$P? If you mean by people who comment (including myself), that could be true. But, not by J$ himself. All J$ does is post links to other websites regarding cable news related stories, then does the “FHWiR” on Sundays. How could there be any possible criticism of Fox by Johnny? I’d love to see it, if possible.

    The truth is vehemently defended.

    No, Fox News is vehemently defended and rationalized. There might be truth defended, but it’s only regarding Fox.

    What is not tolerated is purposeful misrepresentations (lies) and distortions, and a refusal to admit mistakes.

    That is why I prefer FNC.

    When do they plan on maintaining their credibility regarding their attacks on every other networks’ coverage of the Tea Parties when they took out a full page ad in the Washington Post misrepresenting their coverage? Then, like I proved above, Bill O’Reilly claiming that only Anderson Cooper at CNN covered the Private Long shooting, when, in reality, so many more people at the network did?

    Yeah, real nice credibility problem they have at Fox. They must be so very proud.

  41. – Ramjet –

    Never heard of him. Starts with an AA phrase..ends with Peter Gunn. Interesting. Cool username..

  42. “….usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.”

    Criticism of Fox News is alive and well at J$P. More importantly, rigorous honesty is practiced by the proprietor. The truth is vehemently defended. Yet there is recognition that everyone makes mistakes. Promptly admitting and correcting, if needed, one’s mistakes is a requirement in order to establish and maintain integrity and credibility. What is not tolerated is purposeful misrepresentations (lies) and distortions, and a refusal to admit mistakes.

    That is why I prefer FNC. That is also why, after visiting J$P the first time, I’ve returned again and again. Not unlike Mother’s from Peter Gunn.

  43. Needed to promptly correct my mistake; it is “Mother’s,” not”Mom’s Place”

  44. ^ Well. All better then.

  45. joeremi Says:
    November 28, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    That’s not a lie..it’s an impression shared by many.

    No, it’s a fabrication of the facts to fit a consistent need to smear FNC, even when the evidence doesn’t fit the attack.

    The bottom line is..who cares?

    I do… and apparently, you do too, or you wouldn’t be posting all these responses.

    Your whole stupid premise is that I’m attacking Fox?

    Attack FOX UNFAIRLY. Attacking FOX is one thing, making stuff up to attack them, is dishonest.

    Ask yourself something, Partisan. Why would I attack Fox for attacking Palin?

    Because within the far left community, FOX has a “damned if they do, damned if they don’t” persona. You may like that they attacked (or criticized, depending on your degree of reason) Palin… but they’re still “terrible and evil.” Do you think Olbermann was attacking FOX and defending Palin, or via versa? No, he was attacking both.

    And to me, that’s awfully partisan of you.

    What I’m attacking is some partisan Fox apologist coming here to call anyone who thinks some of those folks forgot their mics were hot LIARS.

    Yes, if I don’t agree with you… I must be a “liar.” And of course, if I point out that your misguided and incorrect interpretation of this situation isn’t based on any evidence or fact, I must be partisan.

    But let’s go back to something I said in one of my first posts… I believe that while reporting the news, MSNBC hosts are stepping on babies under their desk. You know, just because their evil and mean. Sometimes when you see their shoulders move, you can tell that’s what they’re doing. Now I have no real evidence for it, and all logic would tell me otherwise. But, just like your review of this situation, I’m basing it on what I “believe” to be true. So I guess it’s true, and a valid opinion… right?

    joeremi Says:
    November 28, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    Your own foolishness and misunderstanding of the situation is your own… it is not a defense for mistakes or lies.

    joeremi Says:
    November 28, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    It’s funny… you see the evidence that everyone knew (or should have known) that they were being recorded… and you come up with another rationale. Then you’re confronted with evidence that those reposting this video HAD to know it wasn’t a leak, because it came from FNC’s website! But still, you spin it… and write it off as an “oversight!”

    Do you not see how you’re making stuff up as you’re going along? Are you unable to recognize what lengths you’re going to to deny reality, and make up a more left-wing friendly defense? Yeesh… talk about partisan.

    alindc Says:
    November 28, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    It would be much better if people could just lie about FNC, without anyone disagreeing or pointing out the lie, right?

    Darn those truth seekers… darn them!

    ProgLib Says:
    November 28, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    How about when Bill O’Reilly claimed that CNN didn’t cover the shooting, committed by Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, of Private William Long?

    Very good, Prog! You finally made a statement and backed it up with some actual evidence! Nice job!

    I had forgotten that incident, but remember it now that you mention it. Of course, that fails to actually prove that “FOX News” lies about other networks “all the time,” but you know… baby steps.

    O’Reilly’s statement was wrong, and should have been fact checked prior to his statement. Whether or not he was telling the truth in his correction, I’m not sure… could have been that he meant to say “prime time,” could have been that was just a convenient way out. Who knows?

    With that, I’ve proven that Fox makes mistakes, too, as well as the rest of the media.

    And when did I say they don’t?

    Many don’t correct it, some do.

    When has Olbermann ever corrected something he said nasty (and untrue) about O’Reilly. I’m pretty sure reality itself would split apart if that happened, and since there are no swirling vortexes currently in Manhattan… I’m going to say it hasn’t happened yet.

    But again, don’t paint Fox as some martyr of smear jobs, while never doing it themselves.

    Again, you pointed out one example of someone on FNC making an error… and then correcting it. Of course, let’s compare what FNC faces with what the other guys face. FNC is constantly watched by how many websites? NewsHounds, Media Matters, ThinkProgress, MoveOn, DailyKOS, and on and on and on and on. The amount of scrutiny that comes at FOX is nothing compared with what hits the other networks. I don’t recall any other White House “declaring war” on another news network… and yet, there’s FOX.

    Let’s be realistic here… FNC has drawn a lot of attention from the left, and is consistently attracted for perceived insults, bias, and lies. When it turns out that most of those aren’t actually true… there is no correction, no “our mistake,” it’s just here’s another attack. So don’t pretend like you don’t know what’s going on, or that everyone else will suddenly forget reality because you want them to.

    That seems to be what you and J$ do for a living.

    Aren’t you the one with the blog? Didn’t your site say you were going to attack J$’s lies? Is that what YOU do for a living?

    I’ve called out MSNBC several times on their mistakes, as well. When have you ever corrected Fox on ANYTHING? Was it in this century?

    Actually no, it was two centuries ago.

    I criticize them when I see it fit. If that doesn’t work for your schedule of perpetual outrage at FNC, well… that’s something you should work on.

    I was merely pointing that they aren’t always the one enduring attacks, seeing as how they attack other networks unfairly, as I clearly showed.

    Again, you showed one mistake, by one host, towards one network. Kinda a big jump there, buddy.

    But even so, who cares? So you showed that O’Reilly attacked unfairly… does that mean that every attack on FNC now is acceptable? Is that what you’re trying to say?

    You obviously can’t handle the truth.

    Nah… it’s just that I like talking about the topic of the thread… not the, “Oh yeah… but FNC is bad too” thread-jacking by those who would rather attack FNC, than address the current issue.

    I was just curious, because I’ve never seen you actually say how much you love Fox News. You always come around to defend and apologize for them. Thanks for the admission, though.

    I love them thiiiiiiis much. You can’t see, but I’m holding my arms out.

    Actually… I like FNC because I like the debate element of the news. I don’t want to be read to (so I don’t watch Beck, and rarely watch Special Report), I want to see a discussion. MSNBC doesn’t really provide that, they just have nodding left-wing heads, and perpetual anger at everything not far-left. And CNN spends more time doing reading at me, and I could do a better job of reading myself. So I turn to FNC where I can hear different viewpoints argue their ideas.

    I’ve seen many news programs in the past, where their tirades and blowups have been caught on live TV,…

    And then posted on the network’s own YouTube channel? Do you see where I’m going with this? If it wasn’t supposed to be caught by cameras, why would FNC have posted it on their site?

    When did you become such a whiner? You’re spending way too much at Johnny’s site getting paranoid about nothing.

    If you’re referring to your comment that you’d be exposing J$ lies… I don’t think anyone was really “paranoid.” But yes, it was over nothing… apparently.

    I didn’t read much of what the others here said. I just skimmed through. I, also, didn’t watch the ON-camera discussion, only the off-camera.

    Translation: I saw enough of what I wanted to see… I wasn’t concerned with researching any more of it.

    And that’s pretty much the problem. To you and the far-left, it was “too good” to pass up… so either you’d have to lie to put the story out there, or shield yourself from contradictory evidence, that way you could still attack FNC the way you wanted.

    Which is exactly what you do on almost every subject regarding Fox to rationalize their idiocy.

    Yet again, FNC gets attacked unfairly, abut to Prog… they’re still in the wrong here. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t… to the perpetually angry like Prog, FNC is always bad.

    What I don’t get, is the dance. Why do you pretend you don’t like FOX for any other reason than the truth: You dislike FOX because they spend too much time discussing and defending points of view that you disagree with. If they were left-wing versions of themselves, you’d have no problem (as demonstrated by your admiration for MSNBC, and defense of this particular smear against FNC). Yet, because they present an opinion that you disagree with, you’re willing to justify virtually any attack or slight, simply because they’re not on “your side.” How petty of you.

  46. Well, he might be talking about people who claimed the video shows what Fox commenters say when they don’t know they’re being recorded. That lie was all over the place, including repeated claims to that effect by Keith Olbermann.

    Still at it, eh Blue? This comment from J$ is where we started, and you’re both still wrong. It’s not a lie, it’s an opinion. Anyone who’s ever seen someone caught with a hot mic unawares knows what it looks like. It looks like that FNW clip. Deal with it.

  47. ^ And it looks like MSNBC is stomping on babies.

  48. ^ That’s a patently ridiculous correlation. It’s called “plausible narrative”. If something looks similar to lots of other moments, the chances are at least 50/50 that it’s the same as those other moments.

  49. Very good, Prog! You finally made a statement and backed it up with some actual evidence! Nice job!

    I had forgotten that incident, but remember it now that you mention it. Of course, that fails to actually prove that “FOX News” lies about other networks “all the time,” but you know… baby steps.

    I do it a lot, you just don’t live in reality enough to see the truth and facts right in front of your face. That’s your problem, not mine. By the way, I’d like to know when I said they do it “all the time”? Nice fail, because I didn’t.

    When has Olbermann ever corrected something he said nasty (and untrue) about O’Reilly.

    I can’t point to a particular time that he corrected himself when going after O’Reilly. I know he has corrected himself many times regarding other subjects. But, if you want to ask this of Olbermann/O’Reilly, you have to ask the same thing of O’Reilly/MSNBC.

    Again, you pointed out one example of someone on FNC making an error… and then correcting it.

    Again, that “apology” by O’Reilly was completely bogus, coupled with an attack on Sanchez, and even misstating his own words that he stated earlier about CNN. So, his apology doesn’t count.

    Of course, let’s compare what FNC faces with what the other guys face. FNC is constantly watched by how many websites? NewsHounds, Media Matters, ThinkProgress, MoveOn, DailyKOS, and on and on and on and on. The amount of scrutiny that comes at FOX is nothing compared with what hits the other networks.

    Excuses, excuses. So, you’re complaint is that the fight isn’t fair because Fox has a lot of watchdogs exposing them? Whose fault is that? Regardless of what those watchdogs do, it doesn’t seem like Fox cares, and just keeps chugging along with its misinformation anyway. By the way, MoveOn and DailyKos don’t particularly spend all their time watchdogging Fox like the others. Apples and oranges.

    I don’t recall any other White House “declaring war” on another news network… and yet, there’s FOX.

    Are you forgetting when the Bush administration tried to get back at NBC/MSNBC for an interview Richard Engel did with President Bush, and Dana Perino was actually asked questions (during a press briefing) regarding this, and said that they should be reprimanded for their bias? Maybe not so much a “war”, but they still went after another network. That’s exactly the reason (and more) that the Obama administration went after Fox.

    Didn’t your site say you were going to attack J$’s lies? Is that what YOU do for a living?

    You just don’t give up, do you? For the umpteenth time, I scrapped that project a LONG time ago. We’ll still address Johnny’s posts every now and then, but not to the same extent. Move on from the past, buddy… seriously. No, what I do for a living (or at least as a hobby) is manage a blog that pushes forth a Progressive agenda documenting the ridiculous occurrences in the political media. My blog goes after MSNBC, Fox News, CNN, etc.

    I criticize them when I see it fit.

    Translation: I only criticize Fox when I feel like it.

    What was it you said earlier… baby steps? Good job, INB. You can do it.

    Again, you showed one mistake, by one host, towards one network. Kinda a big jump there, buddy.

    I could find plenty more lies Fox has made about other networks… but I actually have other things to do. Even if I offered 10 more examples, you’d either deny, rationalize, or not even answer back to them. You just want me to keep doing what you want so you can immediately turn it away every time. Even though you commended me on my last example, you keep coming back to it and saying there was an “apology”, when it wasn’t even a real apology. I can’t get anywhere talking to somebody that doesn’t want to listen.

    …does that mean that every attack on FNC now is acceptable? Is that what you’re trying to say?

    I never said that. I simply said that Fox has unfairly attacked other networks and have lied about them. My whole point was to prove that because you seemed to deny its existence.

    Actually… I like FNC because I like the debate element of the news. I don’t want to be read to (so I don’t watch Beck, and rarely watch Special Report), I want to see a discussion.

    Yelling down guests and saying what your interpretation of the “truth” is not an element of debate. For example, Megyn Kelly proves that a lot when yelling down her guests, like she did with Bill Burton, Kirsten Powers, the executive director of CAIR, and a spokesman for ACORN (just to name a few). She is an incompetent, immature and unprofessional person who does her best version of Bill O’Reilly with blonde hair and nice legs.

    MSNBC doesn’t really provide that, they just have nodding left-wing heads, and perpetual anger at everything not far-left.

    If that’s what you think all of MSNBC is, you have either NEVER watched the network, or you are very proud of your ignorance. I have seen debate on every single MSNBC program, except Countdown. Maddow might not bring on guests she disagrees with a lot, but she has brought them on, and they have always been great debates because she doesn’t yell. She’s professional, and is admired for it. Every other show has debate. You hate that the hosts are liberal… just be candid and admit it already.

    So I turn to FNC where I can hear different viewpoints argue their ideas.

    Why can’t you just admit that you don’t like to watch MSNBC because the hosts are all liberal/progressive? If you admitted that, I’d have no problem agreeing with you. But, you don’t. You bring up the typical fake label of MSNBC not having debate. It’s pathetic and misleading, and you should correct yourself. You won’t.

    If you’re referring to your comment that you’d be exposing J$ lies… I don’t think anyone was really “paranoid.” But yes, it was over nothing… apparently.

    Remember your own words… baby steps, INB, baby steps. In this case, you need to take baby steps to stop from repeating yourself and getting over the past.

    And that’s pretty much the problem. To you and the far-left, it was “too good” to pass up… so either you’d have to lie to put the story out there, or shield yourself from contradictory evidence, that way you could still attack FNC the way you wanted.

    I never lied about anything. I thought it was leaked video, and when I found out it wasn’t, I didn’t agree with it being characterized as such. That doesn’t mean I have to make a whole blog posting about it, or obsess over it like you and J$ have, though. That’s just typical pettiness from you two. By the way, the preceding on-camera segment was irrelevant to me. My blog posting was mainly addressing what happened that was NOT shown on TV, because it was (again) interesting. I enjoyed them laughing about criticism of Palin, not what they said about her in the next segment.

    Yet again, FNC gets attacked unfairly, abut to Prog… they’re still in the wrong here.

    On that particular part of my post, I’m talking about what you do, INB, not Fox.

    Damned if they do, damned if they don’t… to the perpetually angry like Prog, FNC is always bad.

    I love how you wing nuts always like to label people on the left as angry. Do I seem angry here? I’m having a debate with you. Does that mean you’re angry, too?

    What I don’t get, is the dance. Why do you pretend you don’t like FOX for any other reason than the truth: You dislike FOX because they spend too much time discussing and defending points of view that you disagree with.

    Yeah, clearly you don’t get it, INB. You don’t get it so much that you claim I dislike Fox for a reason that’s not the primary reason (which you characterize as a “dance”, even though you won’t admit disliking MSNBC for “defending points of view that you disagree with”). I dislike Fox because they lie continuously while rarely, if ever, correcting themselves. That pisses me off. They purposely misrepresent my President’s policies because they dislike him and don’t care what it takes to do so. They also clearly want President Bush back. Just look at the fawning interviews conducted by the network (other than O’Reilly, who actually challenged him) during his book tour. All this while purporting to be “fair and balanced”. Where is the fairness and balance in trashing one president and fawning over the other? If you watch MSNBC, you can see daily criticism of Obama.

  50. If they were left-wing versions of themselves, you’d have no problem (as demonstrated by your admiration for MSNBC, and defense of this particular smear against FNC). Yet, because they present an opinion that you disagree with, you’re willing to justify virtually any attack or slight, simply because they’re not on “your side.” How petty of you.

    As if you wouldn’t love MSNBC if they were far to the right like Fox? You must have loved MSNBC backed in the day when they had hosts like Tucker Carlson, Joe Scarborough, Monica Crowley, Alan Keyes hosting their own shows. Remember that? And, these were daily shows either in the morning, afternoon, or primetime. When was the last time that a liberal had their OWN show on a daily basis at Fox? I’ll give you another century to think of that one, INB.

  51. ProgLib Says:
    November 29, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    As if you wouldn’t love MSNBC if they were far to the right like Fox?

    No… not really. You’ll note that nowhere in my reasoning did I say I like them because they’re “right-wing.” That has nothing to do with it. However, your response does show that my statement was correct. You are offended by FNC more because of the expressed opinions, than anything else you claim.

    You must have loved MSNBC backed in the day when they had hosts like Tucker Carlson, Joe Scarborough, Monica Crowley, Alan Keyes hosting their own shows. Remember that?

    I do! Wasn’t a big fan of Joe (still am not), and Tucker was okay for a little bit, and Keyes I don’t remember watching at all. However, Crowley’s program was my favorite. Matched up with the (very left-wing) Ron Reagan, the two were very entertaining and did a great job of hitting the issues from both sides.

    Of course, that’s what I like about FNC… so I’m not sure of your point.

    And, these were daily shows either in the morning, afternoon, or primetime.

    I think “Coast to Coast” was on at 14:00, but I could be wrong.

    When was the last time that a liberal had their OWN show on a daily basis at Fox? I’ll give you another century to think of that one, INB.

    Geraldo hosts his own program now.

    But what’s your point? That because no far-left loons host programs on FNC, they’re bad? Huh? What makes FOX great is that they’ll talk to both sides. MSNBC, on the other hand, doesn’t spend much time talking about “the other side,” unless it is to insult, slander, or mock them.

    What you’re looking for is hosts marching in lockstep with your left-wing ideology. Sure, they can vary from being far-left to really-far-left, but in the end, the difference isn’t that dramatic. You want to hear your point of view regurgitated by hosts AND guests. FNC doesn’t do that, they don’t immediately say “the left is great, go Democrats,” so (in your mind) they’re terrible. How “tolerant” of you.

    I suppose coming here, and occasionally to J$’s is the closest you get to challenging your ideas, isn’t it? That’s why you were so shocked when J$ called you out for making claims against him that you couldn’t support… when you live in a bubble, nobody questions certain things. It’s a shame you’ve had your bubble popped, but some of us like the debate. But since you don’t, I’d recommend you stick with MSNBC… just so long as the echo doesn’t give you a headache.

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