Blogus Interruptus…

No you don’t have double vision…


Today’s Physics Lesson: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. United launches three year low airfares to all four Hawaiian islands, Spud jumps on as many as he can cram in. Wish I could have made SFOOGG work. Then I would have ended up visiting all four islands in 2012. But it was not to be.

On the Big Island I will be diving with Mantas. But first I must make a sacrifice to the great Hawaiian god of diving Humano’oke’elaikalu’uma’uma’uhui’i; better known as Fred. I will have have to toss a snorkel into Kiluea volcano. Hopefully not mine.

Blogging resumes October 29th…



559 Responses to “Blogus Interruptus…”

  1. You might need to toss a virgin in to make this all work. Take Andy or Fritz with you.

  2. Spud’s getting leid soon.

  3. I like to imagine Spud ziplining along those red lines!

  4. Hook’em Spud-o.

  5. Well I certainly remember Gary Moore. Sad to say Father tried to get tickets to OUR AMERICAN COUSIN, but they were too pricey, and the family settled for the Magic Lantern show of LIGHTS OF PARIS. I’d never seen anything like those can-can girls.

  6. The first man who asked questions looked extremely familiar. Bill Cullen?

  7. Bill was on I’VE GOT A SECRET for fifteen years. My favorite panelist was the sardonic Henry Morgan.

  8. My goodness, that video brings back memories! TV shows like that were so much better than the reality TV stuff we have now!

  9. Thank you so much, Laura. That was incredible. It gave me the chills! Was the lady on the end of the panel Lucille Ball? I couldn’t tell. I agree, Pam, shows like I’ve Got a Secret and To Tell the Truth and What’s My Line are so much better than the reality shows of today. I love the way the panelists got all dressed up as if they were going to formal event.

  10. Geez, he said Cullen’s name. but I didn’t hear it. Duh. That did sorta look like Lucille Ball, on the end. $80 and Prince Albert in a can. There’s a joke in that somewhere..

    Gee #2..the last set of job-numbers were off. Fancy that.

  11. Laura, what are the corrected jobs numbers? Haven’t heard about this.

  12. Don’t you remember that the last set of numbers had a “large state” as the BLS put it had ‘forgotten” to process one week of unemployment claims? Though the BLS wouldn’t identify the state I heard from numerous places that it was California! Maybe it was a good surf week or something?

  13. Grandpa Dave Says:

    Spud, when you’re appeasing “Fred”, don’t get to close to the edge!

  14. Shep mentioned it briefly, so I’m not entirely clear. It sounded like an upward adjustment, though.

  15. Has anyone else been having problems with his/her Twitter account like poor Eva Longoria has?

  16. ^^ That looks like an open manhole on a volcano.

  17. I kind of liked the idea of offering Mr. Seymour a carton of Winston’s. Tastes good like a cigarette should.

  18. The fifties were a gas, weren’t they? $80 and a can of tobacco for the memory of an historic moment. Zapruder made out better than that.

  19. lonestar77 Says:

    That story of yours Laura, reminded me of this story:

    Which, I’m sure y’all have seen but is pretty cool nonetheless.

  20. Only heard Mitt & Barack at the Al Smith dinner on the radio. Sounds like Mitt did well and Barack was a bit flat. Don’t know if seeing it would have made any difference. Any thoughts?

  21. ^ Looked the same to me.

  22. It was pretty uncomfortable. Mitt missed the “be self-depracating” memo, but neither one were on fire, in my opinion. McCain/Obama was a much better night, no doubt because they didn’t seem to hate each other..

  23. Actuall, I think McCain hates Obama more than Mitt.

  24. Al Smith was famous for saying, “let’s look at the record”, but I don’t know what he would make of an iPod.

  25. I think records are making a comeback.

  26. -be belf-depracating-

    ** Jeans in the morning… nice wearing what “Ann and I wear around the house.”
    ** Usually only asked to these functions “to be the designated driver.”
    ** “Obama embraced by Catholics, Romney dines with rich people.”

    I thought Romney seemed more relaxed and comfortable. The president was funny, too.

  27. I know I know..Romney had a few, but too many were stump-speech-jabs. Obama made the classic mistake of joking about something that’s not funny, ala Bush and “looking around the house for WMDs”. Obama: “Next week’s debate is on foreign policy. Spoiler alert: We got bin Laden.” Ha. Ha.

  28. Damn, Joe, you’re a tough audience. C’mon, not bad for two guys who aren’t known for being at all funny.

  29. It’s playing again on MSNBC. This is the first time Romney has seemed warmer the second time around. He had some good lines, but damn, dude. Cheer up a little! He looks like telling jokes is painful. In other me if I was telling jokes.

  30. Obama’s best was the middle name line. Only joke that he played perfectly – had everyone thinking he’d make a “Willard” crack then… pause 1, 2 surprise!

  31. A little update on those jobs numbers: missing one month, found the next! An Obama supporter from California just happens to misreport – maybe to give the unemployment rate a little help?

  32. The thing I don’t get about this whole debate on whether or not the Obama administration purposely delayed telling us the Benghazi attack was a terrorist why? Why would they delay coming out with the true story; assuming they knew the truth and were putting out disinformation; when they had to know that the real story would be coming out long before election day? What’s their motivation?

    The fact it was a terrorist attack doesn’t change the fact that Libyan security was lax. It only changes the name of the perpetrators. If it was a terrorist attack why not just admit it and live with the criticism. The Obama administration is just not that stupid.

    The only reason I can come up for them delaying the truth, on purpose, is that maybe they wanted the story to be about the delay and not the lax security at the consulate (a much more serious problem); which is what has happened. I find it a stretch that even the Obama administration is that devious.

  33. “A little update on those jobs numbers: missing one month, found the next! An Obama supporter from California just happens to misreport – maybe to give the unemployment rate a little help?”

    ^^It’s all part of that vast left wing conspiracy Pam. They’re trying to steal the election by changing the job numbers in California and then getting caught doing it. It’s a game changer!

  34. Sometimes Fritz is dense even for Fritz. The reason Obama wanted to bury the terrorism story is to avoid doing what he had to do Wednesday, removed from his stump speech following “bin Laden is dead”, is the conclusion “and Al Qaeda is on the run”. He was selling the public the false story Al Qaeda was finished… while it’s prospering in many places.

  35. “He was selling the public the false story Al Qaeda was finished… while it’s prospering in many places.”

    ^^ Beyond silly comment.

    First he has never said “Al Qaeda was finished” That they are ‘on the run’ is true. It doesn’t mean there are not going to be any attacks on the US or it’s overseas properties.

    The question was why would the Obama administration, who had to know they couldn’t keep the AQ attack secret for more than a few days, take the heat for the delay in making that public rather than deal with the much more security lapse story. So they could leave his stump speech intact for an extra week is just dumb..

  36. No you’re dumb, and your mother shouldn’t have ignored your brother’s plea to trade you for a puppy.

  37. Larry,maybe if you have nothing relevant or cogent to add to the discussion you should resist the temptation to post; as hard as that is for you.

  38. fritz: Larry is correct on why the O administration did what they did. Also, we helped turn over the country to the folks now in control and then we basically walked away and said you are on your own! We took security people out of the country in July instead of adding to it. There was an attack on the British Ambassador while he was in a motorcade in June and we (the USA) thought WE would be free and clear of any further attacks? (Since our consulate had had a hole blown in the exterior wall by this time)

    What idiots we were! And by that I mean those people in power to make the decisions. Of course they had to hide all of this from us lowly, little folks about what the hell was happening in Libya.

    And then, O and gang say don’t politicize this whole thing. Other than Susan Rice who did they have out responding to every question about this? Axelrod, Gibbs, Plouffe, LaBolt, Cutter! Who are those people? O’s POLITICAL GANG! Not his national security people. So, don’t politicize this? I call BS!

    Really, fritz, you must like living with blinders on!

  39. It’s simple. A bad thing happened at a very bad time, and they panicked. How you choose to feel about that is up to you, but looking for more complex explanations of what went down is a waste of time.

  40. “Larry is correct on why the O administration did what they did.”

    ^^Pam: So he did it in order not to have to change his stump speech and knowing full well the story would come out within days and they would have to deal with it anyway. Yeah the makes sense.

    “A bad thing happened at a very bad time, and they panicked.”

    ^^Joe: You may be right but I just don’t see them not seeing how this would play out in the end.

    “How you choose to feel about that is up to you”

    True but it being discussed here as if this was done to hide something from the public and I’m just not buying the logic of that argument.

    “looking for more complex explanations of what went down is a waste of time.”

    I’m not looking for a “complex explanation” just a logical explanation. Maybe the Obama administration just got conflicting intelligence and went with what they thought would be the most easily explainable to the public clamoring for answers at the time. Not the best answer but it somewhat passes the ‘Does it make sense?’ test.

  41. The stump speech revision is just a symbol of the problem for the Obama Admin. With much to be critical of their foreign policy they were hanging their hat on pretty much wiping out Al Queda. Then out of the blue Al Queda lead terrorist kill the first U. S. Amnassador in 40 years AND ON 9-11 TO BOOT!

    That was a narrative that panicked them, politically.

  42. fritz: for you not to think the the O administration thought they could get away with feeding us BS is ridiculous. They have had the media on their knees doing their bidding for 4 years. The media didn’t do their work before the election and they haven’t done it since O has been president. Yes, I do believe they thought they could keep up with feeding us crap and everyone would buy it hook. line and sinker.

    It was Eli Lake from the Daily Beast and Fox News who worked on this story from the beginning and CNN came in when they found the diary. If you notice CNN has backed off somewhat since then. But, I reiterate what I have said before, you knew this administration was pissed off at FOX when they were not invited to a conference call with the State Department right before their testimony before Congress.

    O and gang thought again they could could shut off a media source by not giving them information but they also didn’t realize when you start pissing off the spooks and throwing them under the bus they have ALL KINDS of stuff they can leak to show that the administration was lying.

    The State Department had whistle blowers and the CIA will have leakers. I’m guessing there will be more coming out before the election but it is also why the O gang is telling people to vote early and often. The more people that vote early the less they have to worry about. Or they could hope many are like the idiot students at Ohio State!

  43. “they were hanging their hat on pretty much wiping out Al Queda”

    ^^That’s because they had pretty much wiped out the Al Qaeda leadership over the last three’s a defensible point.

    “Al Queda lead terrorist kill the first U. S. Amnassador in 40 years AND ON 9-11 TO BOOT!”

    Actually it is now believed that Ansan al-Shariah, a Libyan Islamist militia with no discernible ties to AQ, did the attack. It’s a easy mistake and II made the same error in an earlier post.

    “That was a narrative that panicked them, politically.”

    Well that’s joe’s argument and totally different than the one you made earlier; which was the stump speech was the reason and that I was dumb for asking the question in the first place. They panicked is a small improvement on that line but still pretty weak.

  44. Pam it’s hard to discuss things with a true believer like yourself. Your seem to think they thought none of this would ever come out before the election and that it’s only because of the great work of FNC and blogs that they were foiled in their plan That requires a massive conspiracy involving hundreds of intelligence people, reporters, long time State Dept. employees and,politicians including many Republicans. It’s possible but unlikely.

  45. Again, the change in the stump speech is an just obvious example Obama folks had to change their narrative. Only an idiot would think the speech was the one and only concern. All my points are connected. All are correct. Each and every one. Especially the puppy.

  46. Their is no coordination required for a conspiracy to hide the truth. There are just individuals who on their own are trying to protect Obama, wittingly and unwittingly. Their number in the media is overwhelming.

  47. Let thee cast no stones in the glass house of true believers.

  48. “the change in the stump speech is an just obvious example Obama folks had to change their narrative.”

    ^^ Example of what?
    What narrative?

    “Only an idiot would think the speech was the one and only concern. All my points are connected. All are correct”

    ^^What concern?
    How is what connected?
    What is correct?

    Especially the puppy.

    ^^ Whatever. It’s just gibberish anyway.

  49. “Their is no coordination required for a conspiracy to hide the truth. There are just individuals who on their own are trying to protect Obama, wittingly and unwittingly. Their number in the media is overwhelming.”

    ^^Sillest comment yet. Hundreds of people working without any coordination or leadership decide on their own to come up with the exact same story. Come on Larry; your starting to get tied up in your own BS.

  50. Obama people were initially given hope by the media’s overwhelming attention to Romey’s first statement. There was even some coordination between reporters with what questions to assail Romney with at his press conference. CBS and NPR were caught on tape staging their questions. But mostly the situation is the proclivity of most reporters to skip an unfavorable story toward Obama… until the story is forced out in the open.

  51. savefarris Says:

    Wow! That’s gonna leave a mark:
    ‘My son is not very optimal – he is very dead’

  52. ^^It was a stupid insensitive comment and I expect Obama will give a real apology; not including the words ‘if anyone was offended’ etc,; by days end. At least he should do that and I expect he will..

  53. I think Obama instinctively saw he could play off of Stewart’s words, ignore the gist of the question, and pivot to the subject of retribution. Problem was he was too clever for his own good and stepped n the mess he made. Romney isn’t the only one that says things he wishes he could take back.

  54. Yes, Pam, every argument about POTUS should begin and end with “media in the tank”. You’re boring.

  55. People often fall asleep during the sermon because the truth can be boring.

  56. Saw this last night, and had followed the story in passing. I don’t wish ill on a lot of people, but he deserves what he’s getting. His “sorriness” just makes it worse. He was snorting and bragging a couple weeks ago.

  57. Give me three to four solid examples over the last 3.5 years (that’s 1X/year) that the media really did their job for us, the citizens of the USA. You know, just asking the tough questions, getting us really good information to base our decisions on, challenging the administration on the who, what, when, where, how and why of any issue so that those of us that are so boring don’t feel like we were being rolled by both the media and the administration.

    Because, as we have been told, Obamacare, is the best thing since peanut butter & jelly. I look at how much this president is using this as his signature act and campaigning with it as such.

    Do I hear crickets?

    And joe, there is no way, no matter how many times you repeat it, will you vote for Mitt Romney. And fritz, explain to me how you are not a true believer, just on the other side. So, “it’s hard to discuss things with a true believer like yourself.”

  58. Gotta love those Chevy Volts and their batteries! Maybe we should all buy stock in Milton-Bradley!

  59. The plant is scheduled to start manufacturing batteries in a couple months. Of course, no dumbass rightwing blog will tell you that. Screw those American ’em all! You’re a real patriot.

  60. “But, they say, that worked ended for the most part last December.”

    “A Target 8 (the TV station) analysis of federal records shows taxpayers spent $7 million to train workers and have paid more than $700,000 for workers’ health and dental insurance. ”

    “Never produced a battery for shipment; still to this day, they’re not,” Merryman, the former employee, said.

    Workers say they shipped out those test batteries last spring, apparently for recycling.

    “It seems like every time that we thought we were going to have a start of production date, something would happen, and it would get pushed back again,” Merryman said.

    Workers say the last target date was July 2, but that it was put off indefinitely.”

    So, where did you get that date that they will start production in a couple of months?

    I wish it was only YOUR $ they wasted!

  61. I got the date from another article that quoted the company. As for this article…oh look, they’re working! And someone in the last sentence apparantly grasps what a recession is..

    – Finally, workers told Target 8, they pushed LG Chem to let them do some good with their company time and have started helping out local non-profits.

    They’ve helped rebuild a burned-out home for Habitat for Humanity in Holland.

    “They’ve been helping out a lot here,” said Rob DeHaan of Habitat for Humanity.

    They work at Felt Mansion near Saugatuck, at the Critter Barn in Zeeland.

    The Noah Project, a no-kill animal shelter in Muskegon, was facing a possible shutdown by the state, until three LG Chem workers started working there five days a week this summer. They fixed cages, painted walls and floors, have worked outside.

    “The call came out of the blue; we were praying, and it happened,” said Noah Project’s Rose Casperson. “They’re a godsend.”

    As many as 30 at a time have spent their work days at Holland’s Outdoor Discovery, cutting down invasive trees, painting homes for birds of prey, building docks.

    “It’s a tremendous help,” said Travis Williams, executive director of Outdoor Discovery Center in Holland. “We’ve had the work of two or three summers worth of activity that has been completed by this group in two months.”

    “It’s unfortunate that those folks aren’t able to work in the company where they were hired to work, but given the economy and given what’s going on, we understand there are challenges that face all businesses these days,” he added. –

  62. “And fritz, explain to me how you are not a true believer, just on the other side. So, “it’s hard to discuss things with a true believer like yourself.”

    ^^ I never said I wasn’t. I Think Obama is doing a pretty good job under the circumstances but I know he makes mistakes. (See my comment on the ‘not optimal’ remark above.)

    Most posters here are passionate but know most times where to draw the line. You can argue with them, even get a bit angry at times, but I don’t think they think it’s a matter of life and death.

    My interaction with you going back to the Wisconsin wars of last year is a bit different. Your hate for Obama, Democrats and liberals like me is much more emotionally than others here and I find it hard to have a back and forth when I can feel your disgust with anything I say so viscerally in your comments. It’s just a touch scary.

  63. Fritz is right, Pam. You have nothing but disdain for anyone who doesn’t see the world exactly the way you do, and it bleeds from every comment you post. I have lots of righty friends on Twitter – including one who loves to bust my chops about the Volt (she sent me that link this morning) – who manage to disagree with me without treating me like I’m beneath contempt. Then there’s people like you who show up on my timeline occasionally. They get blocked. Immediately.

  64. Oh toughen up, sissy-boys #TEAMpam

  65. Say hello to my little friend #teamBLOCK

  66. Great, Joe is channeling Scarface.

  67. This won’t end well.

  68. Wow! I’m going to take the quote of Hilary here except from a different perspective “Quit whining.” As she says you have a lot of choices in life. If you don’t like me or my posts ignore them or quit whining.

    I don’t know where fritz lives but i joe you live on the left coast. You’d never make it here in the Wisconsin. We love our differences of opinion, hash them out. sometimes quite vociferously, and then have a drink. And go on living together in the same neighborhood. We have each other over for dinner, babysit each other kids, chat while doing lawn work, bitch about the snow and why isn’t the city plowing our streets and asking, will you watch my house, feed the cats, bring in the mail and newspaper while I am on vacation?

    I like those things in my life and nothing either one of you say is going to change that in any way, shape or form.

    In conclusion, thanks Larry!

  69. In conclusion, you’ve never said a kind word to any liberal here, which Larry, Al, Erich, Laura, Carol, and even Blue and Farris have managed to do on occasion. You show up here, scream your bloody head off about whatever Rush’s line is that day, and leave, so spare me your downhome Wisconsin BS.

  70. Speaking of Erich..phew, what a jerk THAT guy was! Good thing we don’t have HIM to kick around anymore. I meen JEEZ..YAK YAK YAK. Of course, he’s not reading this ’cause he said he’s done, so it’s ok if I go on and on about what a BLOWHARD that guy was. I mean, what’s he gonna do…ANSWER? NO WAY!

  71. Stop being such a hypocrite, Joey.

  72. Yeah, Erich’s mother wears combat boots.

  73. What’s a matter, Dr. BW..the lack of a smiley confuse you?

  74. Ted Turner, on Piers Morgan, says it’s “good” that more American servicemen are dying as a result of suicide than in combat. There’s a ‘context’ to it, but it’s about guaranteed to appear on Mediaite..if anyone pays attention to him.

  75. – The weird BLS Sept Jobs Report –

    Political Math did a very good analysis of that weird Sept Report if you care to look.

    If your eyes gloss over at keeping up with stats and standard deviations, here’s my Reader’s Digest version:

    What I noticed right away is that the increase in the number of people reporting that they were working was way out-of-whack with the other part of the report – the number of hires reported by employers (that did not even keep up with population growth.) The number is so weird that it’s never happened before (at least since sometime before1948, if ever). The half-dozen or so times we’ve seen anything close to this weird of a report all were in “January” reports when BLS routinely manipulates the numbers to account for population growth. So all of those knowledgeable talking heads who were sceptical had very good reason to be. Add to that, the weird numbers came out at a time extremely beneficial to the sitting president seeking re-election… Like it or not, that’s highly suspicious.

    Now, before anyone gets too far into conspiracy thoughts, Politcial Math compared the numbers of this BLS report to other BLS reports using a different style graphical representation – sometimes it helps to make comparative observations in a completely different way. Looking at it like this, the numbers are still f-ing weird but we can also see that they aren’t so far out to mean that somebody had to cheat to get this result. This can simply be an anomaly due to one half of the data being from such a small statistical sampling.

    Well-hidden by all the scepticism and hoopla about a lower unemployment number is the sad fact that this report really is not very good news for middle-class workers looking for a good job.

  76. The fact that a campaign would brag about such a thing is shameful.

  77. MSNBC, when the LA Times call you on your lame silliness, it might be time to listen:,0,6125990.story

  78. I have to agree larry it is pretty silly; but as we come to the end of this two year political odyssey both sides are getting a bit loopy.

    When I watched LOD leave his anchor desk the other night to personally challenge Tagg Romney to a fight I thought, wow, this all can’t be over too soon.

  79. They have some smart people on MSNBC. It does them no good to turn the network into a cartoon version of a Keith Olbermann special comment. But they have experimented with outrageous stuff before going wall to wall liberal. Anybody remember the Micael Savage show? Proof that there are wingnuts who give wingnuts a bad name.

  80. Not confused at all when it comes to you, Joey.

  81. Larry, I think they put Savage on the air in an effort to “prove” how crazy and toxic the right is.

  82. Larry MSNBC has put a few crazies on the air in the past. Savage, Alan Keyes and Jessie Ventura come to mind. O’Donnell, at his worse, could never be put in that class. Hell he doesn’t even come close to KO.

  83. savefarris Says:

    It was a stupid insensitive comment and I expect Obama will give a real apology… by days end. At least he should do that and I expect he will..

    Well, it’s been nearly 48 hours and (unless I missed it) no apology. It won’t be coming in the next 72 either since he’s bunkered down at Camp David in Debate Prep.

    Unless Bob Schieffer is (like Candy 🙂 ) on the WH payroll, shouldn’t this be the first question at the debate?

  84. Like all the old CBS gang, Bob leans leftward, but he has proved himself capable of asking hard questions to anybody.

  85. The one thing Newt was good for this year was preparing Mitt for tough debates. Though no one was prepared for Plan 999 From Outer Space.

  86. “shouldn’t this be the first question at the debate?”

    ^^I guess Schrieffer could ask that question (although I’m not sure what the question actually is) and if he doesn’t then Romney will probably bring it up.

    The thing is Romney doesn’t want to get into a spitting match with the POTUS over who has been more insensitive to the families of the four killed in Benghazi. It’s not one he can win.

  87. I’d just as soon that no one bring it up. It was just a dumb slip of the tongue. I’m sick of all the BS issues be they “binders” or “birtherism”.

  88. I’m not sure who in the Obama campaign came up with the “Romnesia” line but it’s a pretty good one. Funny, easy to understand and you can riff off it in any number of directions.

    It’s a bit like the “You didn’t build that” line the Repubs have been pushing over the last few weeks with some success.

  89. “I’d just as soon that no one bring it up. It was just a dumb slip of the tongue. I’m sick of all the BS issues be they “binders” or “birtherism”.

    Gee larry we agree again. Must be something in the water.

    I see the ‘optimum’ line as more analogous to the Tagg Romney “I wanted to take a swing at the POTUS” line. Both were given in a non political sense and therefore different than the ‘binders’ or we didn’t build that’ lines which were political attacks and ,I think, fair game.

  90. ^^we didn’t> you didn’t – sorry

  91. It was a stupid insensitive comment and I expect Obama will give a real apology… by days end.

    Bullsheet. In context Obama said nothing insensitive. Unless a word or phrase used is so blatantly offensive that everyone would recognise it as such, we the listeners have an obligation to consider the context and meaning of what was said before casting-about “insensitivity” accusations.

    I understand that a mom grieving over her dead son took offence and she deserves to be offended about anything she damn well pleases. But if there’s to be any apology over such a silly thing then Obama can tell it to her, personally, and the rest of us should not know about it unless she wants us to know. Maybe he already did that… Besides, she’s offended by how this has been handled and the cover-up.

  92. Stewart offered the phrase and Obama repeated it..a common form of identifying with the erson you’re talking to. As a person with Aspergers, I’m familiar with the tactic: If you don’t have a natural conversational ability, you learn tricks to seem less distant to people. Picking up the premise of the person you’re talking to is one of them. Get over it.

  93. Stewart offered up the term in the context of security provisions, and Obama used it for the tragic outcome. Sort of like how the 4 murdered Americans are just bumps in the road to Obama.

  94. Obama used it to avoid a detailed answering of the question. Nothing more.

  95. Will Obama use the weekend to come up with an agenda for the next four year other than taxing the rich, “investing” in more infrastructure, green technology, and teachers?

  96. savefarris Says:

    Obama doesn’t have a natural conversational ability?!?

  97. Obama is on the trail today in Ohio bragging about taking the unemployment rate down to 7.8%… which is like bragging that a family of 4 can live more cheaply because the kids stopped coming to dinner.

  98. ^^ You don’t have a natural reading comprehension ability.

  99. This article presents much caution and murkiness. Which means it’s probably an accurate account of what’s been going on since 9/11/12.

  100. Well that makes me feel better… NOT!

  101. You’d think with the billions being spent on it that the USA would have considerably higher-quality intelligence. Or maybe we just need higher quality higher-ups who receive the intel briefings.

  102. The CIA station chief in Benghazi knew the nature of the attack from day 1, so the latter appears to be the case.

  103. Maybe Libya is a high-risk shytestorm, and accurate intelligence is hard to come by and decipher.

  104. Maybe that could be a clue our Ambassador might need to be protected?

  105. Uh..yeah, that’s a separate topic from the administration’s response after the fact. Security obviously was not handled correctly.

  106. USA no longer has any solid friends in the Middle East except for Israel, and maybe Kuwait. Mubarek was an ally that we turned against… perhaps rightly so. Does King Abdullah worry that USA will turn against him, too? How about the Saudis?

  107. With the way we threw Mubarek under the camel without hesitation, nobody trusts us. I mean NO-BODY.

  108. It’ll be so much better when that business guy without a freaking clue about foreign policy gets in there..

  109. Gotta believe things ‘ill be gett ‘n better (can’t get no worse).

  110. Obama doesn’t have a freakin’, either. Many things of foreign origin are beyond our control regardless of who sits in the chair. Romney has more executive experience so hopefully will better choose and better utilise those he puts around him who do have a freakin’ clue.

  111. Romney has a bunch of shyteheads around him who thought avenging 9/11 by invading Iran’s natural enemy was a good idea. I have problems with this.

  112. Obama has a bunch of shyteheads around who think coordinated attacks on Americans should be handled as a law enforcement/criminal investigations… but for some reason using a drone strike to kill an American citizen who hasn’t been convicted of anything even in absentia is OK. I have problems with this.

  113. Once all of the congressional investigations get in full swing and subpoenas finally honoured, we’ll find out there was a USN Carrier Group sailing the Med and within striking distance to knock-back the attackers. I’m betting 50-50 odds that Pentagon already had a contingency ready to rock & roll had they received orders to do so, and command authorisation to ignore Libyan sovereign air space.

  114. Spud is watching Hula dancing. So is the snorkel in his…n’ermind.

  115. “Romney has a bunch of shyteheads around him who thought avenging 9/11 by invading Iran’s natural enemy was a good idea. I have problems with this.”

    Perhaps you have a problem with VP Biden who voted for it? And Secretary Clinton who did the same? I’d suggest you watch the History Channel, but these days it’s not much help unless you want to drive your truck on ice.

  116. “Which means it’s probably an accurate account of what’s been going on since 9/11/12.”

    ^^ Come on joe; get with the program. An administration that could alter the BSL job numbers on multiple occasions and led by a person who could arrange to fake his birth certificate and newpaper birth announcements could easily fake CIA and State Dept. memos to back their story. We all know General Petraeus is a big Obama supporter who would do anything to keep him in power.

  117. ^^BSL > BLS Sorry

  118. Why I Love the Electoral System
    ……………..An essay by…………….
    ……………….Larry Kelly……………..

    Because I live in Ohio and Joe lives
    in California.

    …………………THE END…………….

  119. Gen. Tommy Franks (USA, Ret) endorses Mitt Romney. Says, “If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.”

  120. “Gen. Tommy Franks (USA, Ret) endorses Mitt Romney.”

    Yeah Al, and I hear Condi Rice is also endorsing Romney. 🙂

  121. A retired military guy endorses a Republican. Call 1-800-WHO-CARES.

  122. He’s funny, you sad, sad men.

  123. There are only two retired generals whose endorsement matters Colin Powell and David Petraeus. Powell hasn’t endorsed anyone yet, but will probably support Obama, and Petraeus works for Obama.

  124. and General Mills makes Cherrios.

  125. Or maybe we just need higher quality higher-ups who receive the intel briefings.

    Or maybe Obama should deign to actually, you know, discuss the briefings with the intelligence experts. But, noooooo, he’s smarter than everyone else and doesn’t need to ask questions, have things clarified, have context, or anything like that. He’s SUPEROBAMA!

  126. Donald Trump claims Barack Obama bombshell

    I was getting fearful his investigators would not report until after the election. Whew!

  127. Sounds like another story like the bombshell video release of a few weeks ago that just proved to be a bomb of a story. It did get big one day ratings for Hannity and Greta which was probably the point in the first place.

    This will probably be the story again (higher FNC ratings for a day or so) as Fox News puts this story on a loop for the next few days.

    What is the big story; probably something like Trump invites Romney and Obama to appear on ‘The Apprentice’ next season.

  128. My guess is proof Obama is King of the Wicker People will finally surface.

  129. Every time I hear about Donald Trump appearing with Mitt Romney, I can feel cells mutating.

  130. “mitt-romney-not-one-of-us”

    ^^ It’s the same line the birthers>Tea Party>Republicans have been using on Obama sense he got elected. If it’s good for the goose etc.

  131. Let’s see an actual example of that under the Tea-Party (tea-bagger as your friends like to call them) banner, Fritz-o McDuck.

  132. Ah, yes. Chris Matthews and Michael Eric Dyson hyperventilate over every imaginary example of “other”, so that makes it okay for Barack Obama to go full Jesse Helms. Somehow I knew that would be the rationale.

  133. “Let’s see an actual example of that under the Tea-Party”

    ^^ Reince Priebus – Sept.12, 2011;
    ‘The people of Minnesota “know that he (Obama) is not one of them.” ‘

  134. I hate countdown clocks.

  135. and the link for that, Fritz?

  136. “and the link for that,”

    I don’t do links that work. Just google it.

  137. savefarris Says:

    There’s a single reference from “”, but noone else has picked it up and there’s no surrounding context [aka Ed Schultz’s “black cloud”] for the quote so we don’t know what it was said in relation to.

  138. I got it from a article by Doug Grow on 13/09/11. There are lots of other references to the comment and I think it was a topic of discussion on Hardball. That’s the best I can do.

  139. Well the best ain’t good enough, as GOOGLE don’t show squat. Not that Priebus is Tea-Party anyway. He is just a REPUG, as the obnoxious left likes to call us, as far as I know.

  140. The Republican Party has embraced and adopted the TEA Party message, across the board. You guys now wear the label of their extremism.

    The American Taliban.

  141. If you google >>>‘The people of Minnesota “know that he (Obama) is not one of them.” ‘ it’s the first story that comes up. If that doesn’t work or your not happy with the quote then that’s just too bad.

    “He is just a REPUG,”

    ^^He’s the head of the RNC and a TP favorite. He’s also an obnoxious a**hole and I feel the same about him as you and other Tea Party types feel about Debbie W-S.

  142. Give ’em hell, Fritz.

  143. savefarris Says:

    According to the White House (by way of Chris Matthews’ leg), the video is STILL to blame for the Benghazi attack. (“Read a newspaper, why don’t you?”)

    He did.

  144. The analytical combo of Karl Rove and Joe Trippi on FNC is terrific.

  145. savefarris Says:

    “#1: I made sure that we secured the area.”

    Then how was CNN able to get ahold of Ambassador Stevens’ diary?

  146. Scheiffer is letting them talk, finish their thoughs, and even mix it up a little. Not the most entertaining of debates, but he’s doing his job.

  147. savefarris Says:

    He’s not pulling a Crowley/Raditz by constantly interrupting. But he couldn’t have set up the Libya segment any better for Obama.

  148. Schieffer’s intro told me he’d be better than the previous three.

  149. savefarris Says:

    Obama: Taxing the Rich will make us safer.

    Because it sure worked for our embassies, the Cole, lower Manhattan…

  150. savefarris Says:

    “We should be thinking about space”

    Great: which one of you just cut NASA to the bone?

  151. ^ Which may turn out to be a great thing, since it looks as though private industry is moving in.

  152. savefarris Says:

    The Navy doesn’t need any more ships: we’ve got aircraft carriers and submarines!

  153. savefarris Says:

    “Why did Obama need to be reminded of the nature of evil when Bill Ayers lived in his neighborhood?” –stolen from AceofSpades

  154. This is an incredibly boring debate, but both candidates appear to be making good points from their respective positions.

  155. savefarris Says:

    “This is an incredibly boring debate.”

    Foreign policy debates always are, unless you’ve got a ridiculous nutso like McGovern or Ron Paul. There’s only so many ways you can say “Terrorists are bad. Israel good.”

  156. ohh Schieffer almost said Obama instead of OBL…..matthews head would have exploded on live tv. only good news STL 0 G 7…..once again Obamas mistake is acting as a expert on RR plans.

  157. Biggest difference between the candidates I see is, under a Romney administration, we would engage with “Pack-ist-an” and under Obama it’d still be “Pock-ee-ston”.

  158. savefarris Says:

    ^ What’s the emoticon for ‘thumbs up’?

  159. ^ I’d tell you but fear it’d be the wrong finger.

  160. Exports up but that came at the expense of a devalued dollar.

  161. Well, THAT was illuminating. Romney is now running as “I agree with the President, plus vague statements about strength and I know how to fix things”. Yay.

  162. Good job moderating. I still say Lehrer did as well as he could given that format.

  163. RT @sarahk47: Haha. RT: @Stranahan: For the record: we homeschool. I don’t love teachers all that much.

  164. savefarris Says:

    joe, you’re exactly 28 minutes late.

  165. Fact-checkers already providing links to back up Romney’s Auto Industry claim.

    Both did well but Obama needed to make Romney look bad and he didn’t. Obama had way too many “I”s and “Me”s.

  166. savefarris Says:

    Van Jones is now a prop comic

  167. Schieffer seemed as though he’d be very ‘present’ when the debate started, and then practically disappeared. He’s the best one yet,

  168. So let me get this straight. We’re big on Israel, right?

  169. That was satisfactory. I didn’t expect a big win from Romney, but he could have lost big. Another bad moment like the last debate would have damaged him. A hit on Libya would have been fantastic, but he’s already plotzed on that one.

  170. Obama’s ‘Navy’ remarks won’t go over well in Virginia.

  171. Romney mystifies me. He bashed Obama for months about setting a date to get out of he agrees with it. I have no idea what he really believes, or how he would govern. That’s a problem.

  172. Nothing mystifying about it. He doesn’t disagree with setting a date to get out. He does disagree with making that set date public.

  173. Obama’s putdown about not using bayonets anymore mystified Marines who train with them.

  174. CNN says Obama won, FNC says Romney won be keeping it close and not letting Obama paint him as George Bush. Don’t know what MSNBC thought and don’t care.

    Summary. No harm, no foul.

  175. “He doesn’t disagree with setting a date to get out. He does disagree with making that set date public.”

    ^^I’m sorry but if you set a date and don’t tell anybody, it’s the same as not setting a date.

  176. savefarris Says:

    “We’re big on Israel, right?”

    If the candidate is a Democrat, only during October every other year.

  177. “Obama’s putdown about not using bayonets anymore mystified Marines who train with them.”
    Remember Obama is the Commander-in-chief and those Marines aren’t.

  178. savefarris Says:

    CGI MISSILES! F&CK YEAH, CNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  179. “Obama’s putdown about not using bayonets anymore mystified Marines who train with them.”

    ^^ I may be wrong; but I thought Obama said ‘as many’ (or it’s equivalent) and not ‘none or no’ in reference to the bayonets and horses.

  180. savefarris Says:

    CNN: “We won’t know who was right on Iran until we see the mushroom cloud.”

    Well gee: might be a little late by then.

  181. It wasn’t ‘as many’ but ‘fewer’ bayonets. That Marine line Chris Wallace used was pure pro Romney BS.

  182. savefarris Says:

    Ed Schultz: “The United States is gonna make money on the auto bailout.”

    Reality: Only if GM’s stock quadruples overnight. Good luck with that!
    By far the best news of the night: I played Luck over Stafford. #noonecaresaboutotherpeoplesfantasy

  183. savefarris Says:

    Nice try Steve Schmidt, but disagreeing with Rachel means you’ll never see your wife and kids again. MUH HA HAAAAA!!!!

  184. I’m sorry but if you set a date and don’t tell anybody, it’s the same as not setting a date.

    When you tell everybody you necessarily tell the enemy when you’re going to be all done fighting, and that knowledge is invaluable. The Taliban have been reconfiguring their strategies so to allow them stronger sway with the various tribal leaders. Knowing the Taliban will still be there after we’ll gone, more and more we’re seeing those people switch alliances.

    If you’re running a presidential campaign wouldn’t you just absolutely love to know a year ahead of time when your opponent will move their campaign staff out of some states?

  185. Most analysis seem to think Obama won by varying degrees; mostly because Romney refused to engage the POTUS except for a few specific areas, like the auto bailout. This looks to be a conscious decision by Romney to do no harm and not make a serious mistake so as to not upset his recent positive progress.

    Will it work? We won’t know for a few days. I haven’t seen any criticism, yet, of Romney embracing the Obama administration’s position on many foreign affairs policies like taking out Mubarak, the Afghanistan withdrawal, attacking Iran or putting troops in Syria.

    Will Rush and all let Romney change all his policy positions because it gives him a better chance of winning? Who knows.

  186. -like the auto bailout-

    Very important for Ohio, and all the news outlet fact-checkings are calling that back and forth for Romney.

    Impressive that, unlike What’s-her-name during last debate, Scheiffer didn’t pull out his own fact check.

  187. The punditry of Carville & Fleischer on CNN is pretty damn good but the panels seem to talk a whole bunch without saying much. Half the stuff David Gergen talks about he could’ve scripted for himself yesterday.

  188. It seems if you follow the Romney post debate spin that losing was the plan all along. They wanted to appeal to women and losing will make Romney look soft and cuddly. Strange strategy but maybe it will work.

    In the end it looks like this debate was the reverse of the first debate; the one Obama didn’t show up for. In this debate Romney took the nap.

  189. If Obama had been strong in the first debate, Romney would be screwed. It’s amazing.

  190. In this debate Romney took the nap.

    Romney didn’t nap, but I get what you mean. The debates are not equivalent as each candidate has a separate goal to achieve. In hindsight I think most of us misinterpreted that first debate. It wasn’t that Romney beat Obama; rather, it was Romney who beat the caricature of himself that the Obama campaign and its surrogates had been putting out for so long. It was in that first debate that voters were able to see Romney as “presidential” and an acceptable alternative to Obama. Doesn’t really matter who “wins” any of the debates.

  191. Romney is betting everything on the base sticking with him simply out of hatred for Obama. I’m not convinced his lack of core principles is going to work for the middle. I’m also not convinced he can talk his way out of “Let Detroit go bankrupt” in Ohio.

  192. Detroit did go bankrupt. When one of the most important industries of the economy is about to go bust in a major way, bankruptcy is a very good thing.

  193. If Obama had been strong in the first debate, Romney would be screwed. It’s amazing.

    The biggest choke I’ve ever seen. By a man who thought it went well. Amazing.

  194. – bankrupt –

    Most workers affiliated with the auto industry don’t believe Romney would have helped them come back.

  195. Exactly Al, Obama’s people had created a false Mitt Romney that ceased to exist after debate one. And Obama helped showcase the real Mitt by looking like a putz. People wanting to dump Obama feel after debate one they have an acceptable alternative. Debates two and three mean nothing in comparison.

  196. If Obama had been strong in the first debate…

    Not necessarily. As we’ve seen in debates 2 & 3, Obama’s strong(er) performance doesn’t do damage to Romney. We can’t know, obviously, but it could be that it was Romney’s demeanour and performance of debate 1 that gave him traction and Obama’s… empty chair irrelevant.

  197. That article presents no influx of government money to restart GM and Chrysler, and Ohio knows it. There was no private money in line..only the government had the ability to keep those jobs. You can have an ideological debate over whether saving them was a worthy endeavor, but you can’t change that if Romney loses the election, it will probably be because of that article, and his history as a venture capitalist. Ohio, Ohio, Ohio.

  198. I like that the guy who lives in CA thinks he knows what people in Ohio think better than the guy who lives in Ohio.

    Sometimes I wonder if the TV talking heads have watched the same debate as the rest of us.

    It will be turnout that wins this fight not any debates anyway…….it comes down to this… the Dems have more people who want to keep RR out of office or do the Gops have more people who want to kick Obama out.

    I can only talk about my area…in 2008 Obama won my county……if RR dont win in a landslide here I will be shocked as heck.

    I voted for Obama but its clear people here have changed 180 since 2008.

  199. I can read polls from Ohio, genius. Romney has a problem with auto industry workers. Who the hell is “RR”?

  200. savefarris Says:


    Does Romney have a problem with Ford auto workers? Because they didn’t take the money and seem to be doing just fine. Kinda blows a hole in Obama’s talking points

  201. Ford was in trouble much earlier…sold off a bunch of high-end auto companies before the recession hit, so they were in a stronger position. Yes, I realize you don’t know this. I also realize you didn’t bother to learn it.

  202. Polls in Ohio show a tie, but with movement toward Romney. Obama thought he had my state in the bag. It is new a toss-up. Ohio is not just a state of auto-workers. Farmers, coal miners, and a lot of people sitting over the Macellus Share formation have very strong opinions about Obama too. Its not like auto workers elected our Republican Govenor. And boy do we have our share of Bible and gun clingers.

  203. From The Telegraph:

    Romney won the third presidential debate – and how he did it was encapsulated in a single exchange. The candidates were discussing military spending and Romney had just accused Obama of making harmful cutbacks. The President wheeled out what must have seemed like a great, pre-planned zinger: “I think Governor Romney maybe hasn’t spent enough time looking at how our military works. You mentioned the navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well, governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets because the nature of our military’s changed.” The audience laughed, Obama laughed, I laughed. It was funny.

    But here’s why it was also a vote loser. For a start, Twitter
    immediately lit up with examples of how the US Army does still use horses and bayonets (horses were used during the invasion of Afghanistan). More importantly, this was one example of many in which the President insulted, patronised and mocked his opponent rather than put across a constructive argument. His performance was rude and unpresidential. Obama seemed to have a touch of the Bidens, wriggling about in his chair, waving his hands dismissively and always – always – smirking in Romney’s direction. By contrast, Romney sucked up the abuse and retained a rigid poker face all night. He looked like a Commander in Chief; Obama looked like a lawyer. Who would you rather vote for?

  204. Shale not share. Sorry.

    ( not really, actually I don’t much give a rat’s a$$ )

  205. imnotblue Says:

    The Telegraph article is how Papa INB saw it, in his review. Obama seemed “angry and petty.”

    INB and Liberal-Girlfriend INB stopped watching 3 minutes in because it was so contentious from the start. And ice cream was a much better alternative.

    Mmmm… black raspberry.

  206. YUM, I haven’t had black raspberry since I was nineteen and worked at my aunt’s soda fountain.

  207. imnotblue Says:

    It does make an excellent milk shake.

  208. NumbersMuncher on twitter:

    PPP post-debate INDYs only key stat: “More/less likely to vote after debate” – Obama 32 more/48 less. Romney 47 more/35 less.

  209. “INDYs only key stat”

    ^^ Is INDYs referring to Indiana or Independents?

  210. Independents

  211. imnotblue Says:

    Colts fans.

  212. The other problem with Romney’s “let me agree with Obama about the auto bailout” is…obvious. This candidacy makes no sense to me. Mitt Romney seems intent to blow off any shred of the conservatism he won the nomination with in order to get independents in the general. So aside from not being Obama, what are conservatives voting for?

  213. savefarris Says:

    1 of 2

    Politifact: Romney didn’t actually say the word “enemy”, but we knew what he really meant. True.

  214. Lower taxes. End to class warfare. Someone who can work with Congress. Reduce government spending. Oh hell, I could go on all day.

  215. savefarris Says:

    2 of 2

    Politifact: Obama didn’t actually say the word “apology”. We have no idea what he meant, but it wasn’t that! Pants on Fire.

  216. Yeah, he’s gonna lower taxes and reduce government spending. And grow the military and leave all the popular loopholes open. And balance the budget. And magically create 12 million jobs. ‘Cause he’s cool like that.

  217. imnotblue Says:

    It WOULD be nice to have a budget… you know, once in a while.

  218. Mitt is closing loopholes. Expect a cap on deductions for the wealthy as his method. Pressure will be on them to earn more and taxes on earnings will remain as they are now. You know times were pretty good when the invention boom of the beginning of the twentieth century drove the American Dream back when THERE WERE NO INCOMES TAXES

  219. CBS had a focus group of Ohio undecideds last night where the majority thought Romney won the debate. The people in the group said they have finally made up their minds. When Norah O’Donnell reported it this morning I thought she was going to cry. Charlie Rose said, And this is from Steubenville…interesting.

  220. When at my cabin, I watch the local Steubenville TV station. They are pro-Obama in their coverage, but their viewers not so much.

  221. Wow! A majority of eight random people from Ohio, who tell us they are undecided, say they think they may vote for Romney – unless, of course, they change their minds in the next two weeks.

    Well I guess it’s all over but the crying now.

  222. As usual I don’t get what you are talking about farris; but corporate taxes and their rates and income taxes and their rates are different. and each plan treats each type of tax rate differently.

    i may be wrong here as your comment is kind of confusing; at least to me.

  223. Fritz I think the point is that a month ago Obama’s reelection looked all but inevitable. Now he could very well lose, to Romney no less. Obama’s biggest weapon was perception and he was a master at it but now it’s not working for him.

  224. Interesting debate on MJ this morning. Joe was speaking with Joe Klein about Obama’s drone attacks. Joe S. was upset that many innocent people, including children, were being killed in these attacks. Joe K. said that these drone strikes were keeping our own children safe. Joe S. said he was stunned that there was so much gnawing and gnashing of teeth under W when he put people in Gitmo and water-boarded one person. But people in both parties are silent when it comes to the human collateral damage of today’s drone strikes. Joe S. kept repeating “both parties” are unwilling to discuss it. What he should have said was that the media is unwilling to discuss it.

  225. carolmr: drones versus kill list. Scary that no one has a problem with this particular issue, either. But even scarier that DWS actually said this:

    An uninformed electorate is one issue, uninformed legislators is quite another.

  226. savefarris Says:


    Romney says he’s going to lower [income] tax rates and pay for it by closing loopholes.

    Obama says he’s going to lower [corporate] tax rates and pay for it by closing loopholes.

    Obama’s plan will pay for itself and lead to decades of prosperity. But Romney’s plan is scary and dangerous and lead us back to the 1920’s and heap mountains of debt upon the middle class. … or something.

  227. Michael Reagan was on Megyn Kelly’s show today and called Obama condescending to Romney last night unlike in his father in his debates.

    I can agree Obama was a touch condescending in a humorous way last night in his navy comments but then surly RR was the most condescending debater ever with is “there you go again” jab at Carter or his “I won’t use is youth and inexperience against him” putdown of Mondale. Yes they were funny; just as Obama’s “bayonets and horses” dig was funny.

    Debate humor is in the eye of the beholder.

  228. At the end of MJ this morning, at the What Have We Learned Today segment, Mika picked a 9-year-old girl out of the crowd and introduced her as Annabel. She asked Annabel who should be president and the little girl responded, “Mitt Romney.” The people behind the MJ crowd started booing loudly. I give Mika credit – she hugged Annabel and shouted, Booing a little girl? What’s wrong with you? Willie said, Clean it up, you people. Even Joe Klein shouted something at the booing crowd. After everyone said what they had learned, Joe thanked Annabel and she got booed AGAIN! How’s the new civility working out for ya? I’m sure Chris Matthews will mention this incident on Hardball. Because, you know, he’s so critical of EVERYONE’S incivility, regardless of party.

  229. Re Scarborough and drone attacks. I saw that discussion and agree it is a subject that is worthy of debate both in congress and the media. It is an issue that crosses party lines with both liberals, moderates and conservatives split on the topic.

    I haven’t seen any polls on the issue but I assume the pro drone side would have more support among voters.

    Personally, like many people, I am conflicted on the question, so having a serious debate would be useful.

  230. “Romney says he’s going to lower [income] tax rates and pay for it by closing loopholes.

    Obama says he’s going to lower [corporate] tax rates and pay for it by closing loopholes.

    Obama’s plan will pay for itself and lead to decades of prosperity. But Romney’s plan is scary and dangerous and lead us back to the 1920′s and heap mountains of debt upon the middle class. … or something.”

    ^^ It’s hard to argue with a shrewd thinker like you farris.

  231. Fritz, I honestly haven’t seen ANY discussion of the pros and cons of the drone strikes in the media. Who knows how many innocent lives are being lost because of them? If this had happened under Bush…

  232. “If this had happened under Bush…”

    ^^ It was happening under Bush ; just not the extent they are now. I assume there was little opposition to the attacks under Bush because they were fewer in number and mostly kept secret at the time.


    FOXNEWS pulls over 11.5 million viewers — making it FNC’s highest rated telecast EVER…

    Congrats to the fine folks at FNC as their light shines to keep America the land of the free.

  234. Obama could still win if he promised everyone in Ohio their own AK-47.

  235. Drones are a big – and much discussed – issue among progressives. Of course that group is invisible to the media, so they’re never heard from.

  236. lonestar77 Says:

    They are invisible to the media because they make liberals look like kooks. The media manages to find every far right nut out there while managing to steer clear of any lefty crank. Or, if they do find the far-left cranks they try to turn them into national heroes like Cindy Sheehan.

  237. Then there’s this guy, who should have been in the debates.

    #Obama says he’s worried about innocent young people in the Middle East. Perhaps he should start by not killing them with drones.

  238. Progressives don’t get on television because a mainstream media beholden to the whims of shrieking conservatives screaming BIAS! won’t give them airtime. But we get libertarians in constant supply. It’s ridiculous that only the conservative outer edges of our politics gets heard. Progressives have Cenk Uygur on a channel nobody gets, and that’s about it.

  239. joe; just tune into Madison TV on your internet. We have a group here in Madison called Progressive Dane (our county) and those folks are the majority or near majority on our County Board and our city council. If the Progressive Dane folks aren’t the majority then liberals make up the balance of the groups.

    Out of 35 members on our county board there may be 6 middle of the roadies and the rest are left and far left of center!

    We aren’t called the Berkeley of the Midwest for nothing!

    Wikipedia has us pretty well pegged in their political section for the City of Madison.

  240. Joe as Carol said Joe Scarborough made the case against drones fairly eloquently this morning; and not for the first time; and he’s hardly a progressive.

    The problem really seems to be if Americans aren’t being killed, but rather Arabs and other mid eastern ethnic groups, then no cares all that much.

  241. savefarris Says:

    Lemme see if I got this straight: the CW today is that Romney should have been more forceful in his disagreements with the president.

    And yet, it was two weeks ago that Romney was crucified for daring to criticize the President over Cairo. In fact, Matthews claimed disagreeing with Obama was “unconstitutional” and smacked of racism.

    Could you libs please release a schedule as to when we are and are not allowed to disagree with the president? Thanks!

  242. savefarris Says:

    Wanna see the definition of ‘uncomfortable’? Check out Wolf Blitzer being forced (at gunpoint?) to read a tease of the Dr. Drew/Honey Bo Boo interview.

  243. Could you libs please release a schedule as to when we are and are not allowed to disagree with the president?

    ^^ Sunday between 8PM & 10 PM.


    ^^ Your welcome!

  244. imnotblue Says:

    So what are we least looking forward to?

    Trump’s “reveal?” Or Gloria Allred’s (alleged) “reveal?”


  245. Here’s hoping they reveal a joint suicide pact.

  246. — Wolf Blitzer/Dr. Drew/Honey Bo Boo interview. —

    Sorry I missed that moment. I knew that the culture was doomed when A&E Biography did a show about Jesse James, Sandra Bullock’s ex.

  247. The only way that horse’sass could rob a train is if it were hooked to a bride.

  248. Is Trump’s REALLY HUGE GAME-CHANGER really just some crap about divorce talk? You know what the difference is between married and divorced people? Married people are the ones who left it at talk..

  249. Well Donald would know about divorce and marriage having been down the aisle a few time himself.

  250. -White House told of militant claim two hours after Libya attack: emails-

  251. “”-White House told of militant claim two hours after Libya attack: emails-”

    ^^ I’m not sure the fact a militant group claimed credit for the Benghazi attack two hours after it happened changes much. Terrorist groups often claim credit for attacks on US targets even if they have nothing to do with the event. This story adds apiece to the puzzle but i don’t think it’s a game changer.

  252. The Republican candidate for Senate in Indiana Richard Mourdock said tonight, in a debate with Democrat Joe Donnelly, ‘Rape pregnancies are “something that God intended to happen.” ‘

    The Senate race in Indiana was a toss up before tonight. Now, not so much.

    If the Republicans are lucky this will be a three news cycle story but it will be the only thing Romney/Ryan are asked about over the next few days. I expect wall to wall coverage in the MSM tomorrow.

  253. The Romney campaign has already “disagreed”, and Mourdock is trying to claim “the media” is misquoting him. Maybe the country needs to wake up and realize this “every life is God’s plan, even under attack and threat of murder” concept is a mainstream conservative view. Especially with the makeup of the Supreme Court over the next four years in the balance.

  254. The clinging mind of a desperate lefty.

  255. Refute it, tough guy. We had Bachmann babbling about “turning lemons into lemonade”, Akin with his “legitimate rape” this tool. There’s a concerted effort on the right to downplay the horror of rape in order to make an absolutist stance on abortion acceptable. We’re only a few more steps away from “she must have done something to set the guy off”. Insanity.

  256. Killing babies is just hard for conservatives.

  257. But forcing victims of violent crimes to raise a kid with daddy’s eyes is just fine. Congratulations.

  258. Btw, you didn’t refute it. You confirmed that I’m right: Rape is becoming a matter of debate among conservatives. They’re genuinely trying to redefine what it is, as well as downplay the atrocity of the ones they manage to admit actually happened. Because of an absolutist position about when life begins that completely discounts the life that’s been assaulted.

    They can’t stand on “life always every time it’s soooo important” if they don’t change what the mother went through to end up pregnant with an attacker’s child. They have to turn their hearts away from the life of the mother in order to cope with their position. Because stepping up and saying “It’s awful, her life is irreparably changed, she may have deep emotional scars forever, but we have to stick with this position” is more than people can hold in their hearts. So they change it. They deny. It’s not right.

  259. You could put two more Scalia clones on SCOTUS to replace two of the libs and you still wouldn’t likely get a flat-out overturn of R v W. Not really much of an issue, and even if it was somehow overturned that still wouldn’t make abortion illegal.

    I’m not sure who said what about rape but there’s a pretty good chance that was spoken from a religious viewpoint more than from a conservative one. Libs hate to admit it, but some of the most arduous opponents of abortion are life-long Dems.

  260. If that religious viewpoint is spoken by a conservative in a political debate, it’s a political viewpoint.

  261. “I’ve struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God. And even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.” – Richard Mourdock

    Doesn’t sound at all crazy to me. It’s a personal religious conviction that he shares with millions of others. It is possible, Joe, and even compassionate for a person to believe that rape is an insidious violation of a woman’s humanity while simultaneously believing that the killing of another life created by that violation is also very wrong. The scarring will remain either way.

  262. It is possible that if the GOP keeps nominating these kooks, the party will cease to exist as a national movement. That fool claimed it’s God’s will when a woman is impregnated by a rapist. That’s a deeply creepy thing to say, and his race is over.

  263. He believes is the sanctity of life and therefore you call him a “kook”. The “party” who nominates these “kooks” are also known as voters. Ironic your name is Joseph… Yosef, husband of the mother of Christ.

    Not sure whether I agree with his position entirely or not. I do believe that two wrongs don’t make a right, but three wrongs can be a sin on me. So my arms would be open to hold and to love her whatever she decides to do.

    Us “kooks” can be pretty silly that way.

  264. Ah, it’s Indiana so this might even help him. He’s running against Joe Donnelly (D), also a pro-life candidate and co-sponsor of HR 3, the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act that contained an exception for “forcible rape,”

  265. Bill O’Reilly seemed slightly miffed tonight that no one else would agree with him that the debate moderator should have asked a tough, specific question and demanded an answer. I thoroughly enjoyed Krauthammer’s simple yet elegant, “You’re wrong.”

  266. Joe knows as much about what people in Indiana think as I know about NASCAR.

  267. Larry re: sequestration – Obamanesia – don’t know if it is stage three or stage four. But, he’s got it!

  268. savefarris Says:

    But forcing victims of violent crimes to raise a kid with daddy’s eyes

    It’s at this point liberals pretend they’ve never heard of the word “adoption”.

  269. Richard Mourdock attempted to clarify his rape remarks in a news conference after the debate last night. Turns out he thinks that rape isn’t “something that God intended to happen” only the resulting pregnancy, if that occurs, is “something that God intended to happen”.

    Glad you cleared that up Dick.

    “It’s at this point liberals pretend they’ve never heard of the word “adoption”.”

    ^^ Gee i wish Richard Mourdock had said that in his news conference last night.

  270. A child, every child, a Gift of God. Pretty simple concept, Fritz.

  271. Luke Russert in for Todd this morning and he just had an excellent segment with Romney spokesperson Babe Buchanan.

    Tough questions and sharp answers. I think Babe Buchanan is Romney’s best surrogate. She doesn’t come across as a bully like John Sununu or just spout the days taking points verbatim on every question like Alice Stewart. Rather she can think on her feet, is always polite has a sense of humor and gets out the TP’s smoothly without appearing to be a talking robot.

  272. “A child, every child, a Gift of God. Pretty simple concept,”

    Maybe so Al but a 14 year old rape/incest victim, or her parents, may not feel that way.

  273. Returning from my cabin, I noticed though gas in West Virginia still at four bucks, but I was able to fill up in Ohio for $3.15/gal. See Mr. Obama, you can do something about gas prices when motivated.

  274. Mourdock”s rape comments may prove to be a big problem for Romney as well as himself. It turns out Mitt just fully endorsed, and cut an ad for, Mourdock. Now the Romney campaign is refusing to answer questions as to whether or not he will withdraw that endorsement and ask Mourdock to pull the ad.

    Until the campaign come up with a way to answer that question (or a bigger news story bigfoots the Mourdock one) it will be a part of the daily political news cycle and continue to take Romney/Ryan off message.

    Mourdock, like Akin, has a number of past statements that are way off the Romney message, to put it mildly, so this has the potential to grow into a big mess unless Romney can come out with a coherent solution. As yet he hasn’t done that.

  275. BTW: I haven’t seen FNC yet today. What’s their coverage of the Mourdock story been or have they even mentioned the comment and Romney’s response?

  276. Bay. Bay Buchanan.

  277. Good gene pool.

  278. Gene Pool. Helluva guy.

  279. The Romney campaign is sticking with Mourdock. Not really a surprise as dumping support for him has a bigger downside than not throwing him under the bus, like Akin.

    Although the Mourdock line is offensive you can spin a plausible defense for it; at least for the base. As well I’ll bet Ryan would have been very unhappy to have yet another of his pro life cohort tossed aside to appease the Romney move to the center. As a person of beliefs he must already be choking on all the Romney campaign sliding to moderate policy positions.

    Another interesting fact in the Mourdock controversy is that his opponent Joe Donnelly is no pro choice supporter. He was one of the few Democrats that voted for the ‘forced rape’ bill in the House.

  280. Actually hard to tell which is more boring: Fritz in general or this issue in particular.

  281. The right wing dumbassophere is eating Donald Trump’s bait like candy today.

  282. Actually hard to tell which is more boring: Fritz in general or this issue in particular.”

    ^^ And yet you can’t resist commenting; even when you have nothing relevant to add to the subject. 🙂

  283. Jonah Goldberg: “What have our politics come to when a Dem campaign official is forced to resign simply because he was taped counselling voter fraud?”

  284. So if Romney paling around with Trump was bad, THIS, has to be worse:

    He could get re-elected if he had Seal-Team-Six take her out.

  285. imnotblue Says:

    The very religious believe that EVERYTHING is the result of God’s plan. Why is that news? And why does the left seem intent on having a theological discussion about God and “why bad things happen to good people,” as if it’s political?


    Oh, RE: Trump… good for everyone for mocking that fool. I wonder when the same will be said of Gloria Allred. Probably sometime after never, but right before hell freezing over. An attack on Romney, if effective, is good… the truth is irrelevant.

  286. – Why is that news? –

    Because when the rest of the country discovers that it includes things like a 14-year-old girl being raped with a knife at her throat, then expected to have the child as a result, it tends to freak them out.

    Rational religious people accept that evil happens, then seek Godly ways to deal with it. Irrational religious people contend the evil itself was God’s will. That’s. Crazy.

  287. savefarris Says:

    There *IS* a difference between God allowing something to happen and God pre-destining something to happen. Unless we all became Calvinists overnight and nobody told me.

  288. Perhaps God plans the infant born of rape is destined to be a John Conner in his importance to God’s plan? Or perhaps God is just too busy helping football plays to be bothered. Or perhaps God is crazy. Or perhaps just smarter than the average blog commenter. Irrational blog commenters, of course.

  289. Wow. Joey actually made sense. Time to put our heads between our legs and kiss our rears goodbye, because the end must be near!

  290. Well, here is one of the liberal big mouths that would up until this week claim voter fraud was a myth:

  291. imnotblue Says:

    @ Joe

    Now that IS the correct rebuttal.

    If God’s will cause or allowed a horrible thing to happen, didn’t/wouldn’t He also allow methods of “dealing” with it?

    That said, I really hate this religious philosophy stuff. At least, when it gets enmeshed with politics.

  292. Holy mother of God, MSNBC. I understand that they’re a “forward leaning” progressive activist network and I’m fine with that since they don’t hide behind the “fair and balanced news channel” FOX hide behind, but they’ve beaten the dead horse to a pulp over Richard Murdock’s profoundly stupid comments.

    I’m about to vote for Governor Romney just to spite them.

  293. Bill O’Reilly has, on a couple of occasions, criticized the press for their coverage of Bush after 9/11, IE the fact that he continued reading to the kids. I believe he’s conflating the Michael Moore/left-wing dingbattery on the subject with actual press coverage. Now, there were some shots taken at the fact that Bush was sorta hiding out afterwards, but that wasn’t so much from the press, as I recall. For all the valid examples of ‘bias’, that one’s pretty weak.

  294. People are saying nice things about me here. I’ve clearly made a bad turn…

  295. You’re still an idiot and a moron.

  296. I don’t agree, Andy. That guy’s about to lose his Senate race because early voting is happening now, and he’s the only down-ticket candidate Romney has done a video ad for. And Romney’s not pulling it. This story has completely overtaken Twitter on both sides of the aisle. It’s a huge distraction for Mitt..a legitimate news story.

  297. You’re still an idiot and a moron.

    Fortunately, I’m good lookin..

  298. It is a legit news story. Don’t be too surprised when the guy wins, though. Hoosiers think of Indiana as a southern state.

    Thoughtful and reasonable response up there, Joe.

    Bill O’Reilly did Letterman’s show and the two actually got along. Scary.

  299. @ Al

    It’s evidence that the armor that has for so long surrounded Obama, has been cracked. Odds are, it was that first debate… the God-like Superman that so many on the left had believed in, became mortal. And since then, there are a lot of people who are seeing just another politician, and becoming disillusioned with the rhetoric they’ve accepted over the past four years.

    @ Joe

    It’s a story. But as it related to Romney, I thought the whole “guilt by association” thing was deemed “inappropriate” by the left a few years ago. I seem to remember them saying something about how it’s meaningless. Hmmm.

  300. Oh please. If you’re currently endorsing someone for Congress, you’re identified with his beliefs. If you withdraw support and disavow those over. Come on,’re smarter than that.

  301. The New York Times reveals today–in a classic buried lede–that Harvey Weinstein’s film about the killing of Osama bin Laden, set to air on the National Geographic Channel two days before the election, originally included a scene showing Gov. Mitt Romney “appearing to oppose the raid,” a complete fabrication of history.
    The film, SEAL Team Six: The Raid on Osama bin Laden, grants President Barack Obama a “starring role,” and was edited–apparently at Weinstein’s suggestion–to embellish Obama’s involvement: “the film has been recut, using news and documentary footage to strengthen Mr. Obama’s role and provide a window into decision-making in the White House.” The director claims, in his defense, that the edits reduce Obama’s on-screen time.

    In related news, MSNBC still plans to air the entire TO CATCH A PREDATOR series on pre-election weekend with the CGI substitute of Mitt Romney as each of the predators.

  302. The Mourdock story continues to stay on top of the news cycle; helped today by John McCain going rogue and saying Mourdock has to apologize and ask for forgiveness.

    I thought originally that this controversy would last a couple of days but it now looks like it might have legs. Republicans are split on what Mourdock should do and as every GOP candidate is asked to pick a side it actually may have some real; although small, except for Mourdock; effect on campaigns outside of Indiana.

  303. Oh, I think Liberals are getting desperate for something to cling to. Pathetic bed-wetters.

  304. Good one Larry I laughed so hard I wet myself. 🙂

  305. savefarris Says:

    If you’re currently endorsing someone for Congress, you’re identified with his beliefs.

    So that means we can include Obama in Patrick Moran’s conspiracy to commit fraud, right?!?

  306. only if Obama hasn’t withdrawn his support

  307. “So that means we can include Obama in Patrick Moran’s conspiracy to commit fraud, right?!?”

    ^^Yes if you also include Romney and the RNC; who actually committed voter fraud in Florida and Virginia; right.

  308. Dissemble all you want, ladies. Mourdock is a disaster for the GOP.

  309. imnotblue Says:

    That’s the problem when your party actually has a “big tent,” and people with varying view points… instead of a party that only thinks it has a “big tent,” but bullies or bribes anyone who doesn’t tow the line.

    Murdock’s comments, and the focus from the left on them, doesn’t do much for dead soldiers or out of work employees.

  310. Mourdock’s comments do nothing for women intent on staying in the 21st Century. The far-rightwing of the Republican Party is trying to redefine and minimize rape, no doubt so we can go back to an era when claims of rape were considered just an excuse to get an abortion. ‘Cause we all know there’s millions of women out there falsifying rape claims so they can have all that sex and get abortions. This sh!t is insanity.

  311. “Murdock’s comments, and the focus from the left on them, doesn’t do much for dead soldiers or out of work employees.”

    True and it doesn’t effect the weather or stock market either; assuming your point was that totally unrelated subjects rarely relate to each other.

    If on the other hand your point was that a right wing nut’s rape related comments aren’t important then, not so much. They do effect who is elected POTUS and who runs the Senate; although maybe not quite as much as “dead soldiers or out of work employees”..

  312. imnotblue Says:

    @ Joe

    If fighting against anti-abortion folks is the most pressing issue facing this country, and believe that electing members of their party, who publicly disagree with them, will somehow still enable them… then by all means, continue to make this an issue. It, however, is terribly short sighted and wrong.

    I simply cannot understand the mentality that says, “We may all go down the tubes, but at least we protected abortion rights… from that one guy.”

    @ Fritz

    The point is that there are much more important things to focus on, and little distractions like this are all the Democrats and Team Obama has at the moment. Their plan for the meaningful things in America (economy, foreign policy, etc.) are non-existent. Their only hope is to blow up nonsense like this, pretend it’s wide spread, and make an issue out of it… hoping people will be distracted long enough.

    Is this really the most important issue right now?

  313. MT @jimmiebjr: reminder: Obama ate a dog. And armed the murderers of over 300 people. And left our men to die in Libya. And lied about it.

    But by all means, lets yap about a man who thinks that all life is precious. That’s the REAL story. Spud vacay and this election can’t end soon enough.

  314. The bottom-line is that Republicans have nominally opposed abortion since Reagan, and we’re no closer to banning or limiting than we ever were. It’s the ultimate wedge-issue, used to scare people into voting for a party whose goal is to involve government in their lives to the greatest extent possible. You can’t drink a pint of soda or smoke, but you can have a frigging abortion every day of the year, while some other schmuck pays for it. Great message.

  315. Rachel Maddow made an interesting point last night re this whole rape pregnancy debate – who decides if it was rape? Assume Romney wins, the house and Senate are Republican, R v W is eventually overturned, and a law is passed stating that only the life of the mother and rape/incest are reasons for abortion – what happens then? This is what Republicans say they want and what they will do when in power. I think they will only win the House, but that’s me.

    Do you just trust the pregnant women when she says she was raped? Not likely.

    Or do we make doctors make the decision and create an underground system of doctors; similar to the one that occurs in the medical marijuana industry that lie to help women get abortions? Possible but hard to police.

    Or do we create a death panel of government bureaucrats to make that life and death decision? Who knows.

  316. “Is this really the most important issue right now?”

    It is; if you want to elect Obama and keep control of the Senate.

    You guys are making a big deal out of Moran (moron) son being caught in a James O’Keefe video counseling voter fraud. It’s more important than that. Larry wants to tie that to Obama. You agree?

  317. @ fritz

    Assume Romney wins, the house and Senate are Republican, R v W is eventually overturned, and a law is passed stating that only the life of the mother and rape/incest are reasons for abortion…

    Or conversely, we could assume that while in session, half of Congress is obliterated by a comet, which winds up opening a trans-dimensional rift, and now dinosaurs and zombie Lincoln are trying to run the government. I find that a much more worrisome future.

    Which is just as likely as anything Maddow or you fear monger hypothesized.

    What a dumb waste of time.


    RE: Voter Fraud

    The right wants to tie DEMOCRATS to the voter fraud, since they’ve been the ones so adamantly lying about it, and pretending it doesn’t exist. The right wants to put in some sort of standard so people have to prove they are who they say they are, before voting. The left wants everyone to vote, isn’t interested in taking preventative measure, and pretends like this stuff doesn’t exist. This example serves to shoot that lie to bits.

  318. Oh, and because I was curious… I did a quick search on the home pages of some common news sites.

    CNN, NBCNews, MSN, Google News, and Drudge mention the Murdock story on their home page exactly 0 times.

    So outside of the blue blogs and blue TV, I don’t think this story has the traction or impact you think it does, or want it to.

  319. Hey blue I’m just assuming what you and others here on the right have been saying for months; Romney will become POTUS, the House win stay Republican, the Senate will turn Republican, the SCOTUS will overturn RvW in the next few years and the congress will ban abortion. What part of that do you disagree with?

    Your voter fraud comment is too silly to bother answering.

  320. Really, when did I say any of that would happen? Heck… who on the right said any of those things?

    What planet do you live on, Fritz?

  321. Mourdock, Akin and their ilk are a serious issue because Paul Ryan is in their camp, and a Romney win sets up a future Paul Ryan presidency. If there’s one thing that would preclude me from ever voting Republican no matter how unhappy I am with the Democrats, this is it.

    I can appreciate the conventional conservative opposition to legal abortion even if I don’t support it, but this crap in the last year against any exceptions, as well as the attack on birth control as an “abortion procedure”, is deeply concerning for me.

  322. That’s how we negate the existence of voter fraud, we just ignore instances when it actually happens! Then we applaud like little penguins when Jon Stewart talks about a “solution to a nonexistent problem”.

  323. “Really, when did I say any of that would happen?

    ^^ It’s what Republicans are suppose to believe will happen.

    “Heck… who on the right said any of those things?”

    ^^Mitt Romney.

    Blue if your just going to answer my question with more questions it’s time to move on.

  324. “It’s what Republicans are suppose to believe will happen.”

    ^ ie: It’s what I imagine Republicans believe, and my imagination is reason enough to believe.

    “Mitt Romney.”

    ^ Where did Romney says the SCOTUS will overturn RvW?

    “Blue if your just going to answer my question with more questions it’s time to move on.”

    ^ If you’re going to make bizarre stuff up, please expect to be asked to prove it. Otherwise, provide examples at the start, or don’t make stuff up.

  325. Joe the whole Republican abortion policy wish list a pretty silly and not very well thought out.

    Assume for example the ‘life begins at conception law’ was ever passed. Then every child of an illegal immigrant, no matter where the birth took place, could claim US citizenship; if they were conceived in the US. Lawyers would be sooo happy.

  326. ^ If you’re going to make bizarre stuff up, please expect to be asked to prove it. Otherwise, provide examples at the start, or don’t make stuff up.

    Whatever; as I said I’m moving on to those who don’t answer my question with other questions; which is your main point of argument when your flummoxed.

  327. Didn’t the Evil George Bush have control of the House and Senate for some significant portion of his term? And he couldn’t even manage to appoint two justices to overturn ObamaCare. You people are as hysterical as the rest of your party. Keep yapping.

  328. Gee laura I wish i was as sure as you and ‘others here’ that RvW would not be overturned if Romney wins and gets to appoint a couple of ‘Supremes’ – most likely replacing liberals. I’m not.

  329. @ Fritz

    Fine… to answer you nonsensical hypothetical “make ’em ups” question: Even if Romney wins, and both houses of Congress turn Republican… the odds of anyone trying to overturn “Roe v Wade” is never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never going to happen.

    Similarly, it is IMPOSSIBLE that the congress would be able to get enough votes to outlaw abortion.

    The theory, is bunk and simple fear mongering for the simple minded. Which was the point of my initial response. It’s so stupid, why bother imagining it? Perhaps next, we should start wondering about what happens when Aliens land on Earth… will they be able to vote? And will it be racist to ask them to show ID?

  330. George Bush and ObamaCare?

  331. If the liberal looney tune characters around here want something to be really cheered about, it’s TIME MAGAZINE’s take on Ohio. Though Romney has tightened the race to a tie, among people who voted early, it’s two to one in favor of Obama. That should give him a win in Ohio.

  332. A man who cannot be relied upon to overturn something as unpopular as ObamaCare is highly unlikely to take that big step with Roe. He may allow some reasonable restrictions to stand,(which liberals will portray as the end of the world, much like Webster in 1989), but overturning it entirely is a dream.

  333. @ Larry

    RCP has Ohio looking like it’ll turn for Obama. Although, I think the odds are that we won’t know exactly who Ohio went for until many days after the election… and some “funny business” with votes.

  334. OK I give up. Were in Bizarro world where if Romney wins he’s going to appoint SCOTUS judges who support RvW just so it will always stay the law of the land; and the House Republicans will never pass any laws restricting abortion.

    So if Romney and Republican candidates never plan to overturn RvW or pass laws restricting abortion why are they saying they will only support laws that ban abortion except when the life of the mother is threatened. or rape/incest is the cause of the pregnancy and overturning RvW is there top priority in law?

  335. were . we’re sorry

  336. “…and overturning RvW is there top priority in law?”

    Um, because they don’t. As a whole, the party does not believe that is the top priority. Not by a long shot.

    Try turning off Maddow, and returning to the real world.

  337. The question was how do you enforce a rape exception law not how can you pass the law. My point in all this is not that Republicans will overturn RvW or ban abortion; it’s that IF they got their wish they couldn’t enforce any rape exception law they passed no matter how strict.

  338. So your point is that SOME Republicans believe something, that won’t pass. And IF those SOME Republicans managed to get in a super majority, this bill that some support might become a law. And then IF certain SCOTUS judges stepped down, the maybe Republican President would appoint other judges who might support these some Republicans. And then the law could be brought before those SCOTUS judges and seen as legal. And then, when it was enacted, they wouldn’t be able to enforce it.


    So it’s an if/than situation, that requires the following to all align:
    -President, Republican
    -Senate, majority
    -House of Representatives, majority
    -Senate, super majority
    -House of Representatives, super majority
    -Law created
    -Law passes House
    -Law passes Senate
    -Law signed by President
    -Retiring/Leaving SCOTUS judge (2)
    -Appointed SCOTUS judge, far right (2)
    -Case makes it to SCOTUS
    -SCOTUS agrees with law
    -Law has trouble being enforced

    And all those, which one after the other have to happen, for your scenario to take place… all that seems reasonable, and worth worrying about, to you?

    Are you serious?

  339. ^^Well it’s going to come as a big surprise to the pro life movement that anti-abortion laws are impassable and unenforceable.

  340. impassable should read not passable sorry

  341. savefarris Says:

    Although, I think the odds are that we won’t know exactly who Ohio went for until many days after the election

    Is CNN gonna turn Ohio ‘green’ again?!?

    Larry’s TIME poll has a sample of D+10. Get back to me with a poll split that even halfway matches reality.

  342. imnotblue Says:

    The sheer number of things politicians promise, but can’t actually do anything about is astounding.

    Did anyone really think Obama was going to close Gitmo? He had no plan for where to put those people. It was just pandering to the far left, and banking on their forgetting or forgiving the broken promise… which they did.

    So why should this story be any different? Who cares?!

  343. “President Liar?

    Still awaiting a reasonable explanation.”

    Larry, MSNBC (at least not MJ or The Cycle) has not made one mention of the above e-mails. Lots of talk on both shows about Mourdock, though, because that’s more important. Shame on SE.

  344. “Still awaiting a reasonable explanation.”

    Hillary explained it pretty simply.They were waiting for evidence other than a facebook claim of guilt.

    A successful attack against US assets is often claimed by any number terrorist groups. Often these claims prove to be untrue.

  345. Benghazi security was a failure, followed by much chaos and confusion about who/what/when after the attackl. The right is going to keep trying to make it an election issue, and the voters are going to keep insisting it went badly, but it is not going to affect their vote. It’s obvious Romney has internal polling which tells him this, and has decided beating that drum is a loser which could come back to haunt a Romney presidency in a future Middle East crisis.

  346. Or maybe Romney’s decided that the press is only interested in portraying him as politically opportunistic, so it’s better to just let the story dribble out as it will. Not sure I agree, but it’s plausible. Since this Administration has handled national security about as well as the economy, it may not matter.

  347. Yes, it’s the media’s fault, and Mitt the poor victim. It was only a matter of time..

  348. Yes, I’m stupid and it’s all my imagination,

  349. imnotblue Says:

    They weren’t sure what the cause of the attack was. Which is why they didn’t report that.

    Until they needed a story, so they made up some stuff about a video. And babbled about that, until they got caught… and then played the, “Um… actually we’re waiting,” card.

    So they were waiting. Except for when they weren’t.

  350. It’s simple: Voters care about the economy, and who they think is more likely to fix it. I suspect they also care that the next CiC has some clue what he’s going to do when he gets there.

    Obama is a very flawed candidate with the benefit of a terrible opponent. Romney’s performances in the last two debates were deplorable. Whereas I thought history might skip those, and remember only the first one, now I think it may look back on the two that confirmed the challenger knew little about the world, and would say anything to get elected. Including agreeing with every word his opponent said while sweating and grinning grimly.

  351. I just saw on Special Report that Obama called Romney a “bullsh***er” in a Rolling Stone interview. What happened to the new civility? I hope Chris Matthews and Mark McKinnon don’t find out about this. They will be so upset, I’m sure.

  352. imnotblue Says:

    Hey, hey! You can’t complain about that kind of language! That’s racist!

    Chris Matthews told me so.

  353. R v W is eventually overturned, and a law is passed stating that only the life of the mother and rape/incest are reasons for abortion – what happens then?

    Not likely given the SCOTUS appointments Romney is expected make. But just for giggles, assume R v W is overturned and congress enacts a law banning abortion. Even J. Scalia has said many times that he doesn’t see how such a law banning abortion on the federal level could pass constitutional muster without amending it. Not going to happen.

    I took a closer look at what Mourdock actually said. Both in his words and in his tone, he did not in any way say or infer that “rape” is the will of God. People who try to convince others that he did are sleazy liars.

  354. Unless Obama confirms he intended to be quoted that way, I’m not buying it. It is well known how The Rolling Stone Interview works..Taylor Swift talked about it this week on Letterman: They show up and hang around forever; become your bud; and you forget they’re taping.

    This happened to that general a couple years ago. Dude completely forgot he was on the record, and got himself fired. People have been falling for this trap for 40 years. Most likely scenario: Obama didn’t notice he cussed, and Smart Reporter didn’t mention it.

  355. Civility is only supposed to apply to Republicans.

  356. It’s pretty bad when you can’t even get David Letterman to cover for a Democrat.

  357. savefarris Says:

    Benghazi security was a failure, followed by much chaos and confusion about who/what/when after the attackl.

    There was so much chaos and confusion, and such a desire to get to the bottom of what happened, that Obama jetted off to Vegas the next day.


  358. Al, Mourdock specifically said conception as a result of rape is “intended by God”. He’s so certain of it, he refuses to retract the statement. You can accept the concept or reject it, but you can’t pretend he didn’t present it. He did. It’s disgusting.

  359. The flawed Repub candidate is still gaining in the polls. Flawed polls to some extent, no doubt, but they’re all still showing the same movement.

    It occurred to me that the reason Obama looked so angry for that last debate was that he practised days and days on his response to a “Libya” attack and Romney didn’t give him a chance. Obama won the last two debates, Romney won the series.

  360. Did the Obama campaign pull ads out of Virginia and Michigan? Not seeing many lately.

  361. But if it’s Mourdock’s choice to believe that all human life is intentionally created by God, then he needs to understand that a rape victim may not see her pregnancy in quite the same light.

    I didn’t misread it, and neither did Amy Sullivan.

  362. Al: call me a sleezy liar; but so is Mourdock.

    If you have nothing to do you can play around with the VoteCompass. I’ve used this thing twice before but this is the first time for an election I’m not eligible to vote in.

  364. He is not arguing that rape is the something that God intended to happen.

    This is a fairly common theological belief, the understanding of God as an active, interventionist deity. It’s also not limited to conservative Christians. There are liberal Christians who also argue that things work out the way they’re supposed to. Some of them are in my own family, and I disagree with them. But it is one way of grappling with the problem of theodicy, trying to understand why God would allow bad things to happen.

    Read all that she says, not just the part you like.

  365. “Al: call me a sleezy liar; but so is Mourdock.”

    not a liar. just stupid.

  366. I don’t know if God intends those things to happen but the laws in biology allows life to be created even in such horrific situations.
    It’s best not to try to understand the mind of God, human intelligence is nothing compared to God. People should focus more on ministering to those in need.
    By the way, it’s interesting to see conservatives not hitting back at liberals for being weak on crime. Does that mean both sides in America agree on tough sentencing?

  367. Look, I’m not going to keep having these theological discussions with people who can’t even understand the parameters. There’s the rape; the conception; and the pregnancy. The standard “life without exception” position is that once the egg has been fertilized, it’s a life that must not be stopped. That’s an obvious belief of Mourdock’s, but it’s not what he said.

    He SAID that the fertilization was “intended by God”. That would be the act resulting from the rape that then presents the victim with the issue of what to do about the resulting pregnancy. Now get the subject straight, or quit commenting on it.

  368. Vote Compass was fun, OS. Thinks I should vote for Gary Johnson by a smidgeon.

    While I generally agree with tough sentencing in concept, I get irritated with many of the mandatory guidelines because far too often such sentences are totally unfair. On the flip side, we have too many liberal judges on the benches who allow child rapists off with only a few weeks in jail. I’m opposed to federalising crimes and so it’s not a presidential issue.

  369. He meant that the life was intended by God, not the rape. That’s not a crazy idea for anyone of faith. If the convictions of faith were only for the easier crosses to bear then what’s the point?

    Mr. Mourdock could have kept his mouth shut or answered with wiggle room for political advantage. Apparently he believes we are called called to advocate for and to help the least among us. Hard for someone to be much lower on that scale than the unwelcome baby of a rape. It is mostly liberals who choose to use his words for political gain and respond wit hatred.

  370. Completely forgot that criminal law is mostly a state matter in the States. Shouldn’t rely on Eva Longoria and Scarlett Johannsen for facts.

  371. My response is for the contention that God wouldn’t prevent the rape, but then would intervene to create a life from it. You can shout to the heavens that God intends for the pregnancy to continue, but that’s a further-down-the-road argument. Which you clearly insist is what we’re talking about. That’s fine if that’s what Mourdock meant, but he has made no effort to back away from what he said. And what he said makes God out to be one bizarre and uncaring Being. I can’t accept that version of Him.

  372. Ten days prior the averaging of polling for the Scott Walker recall election showed the governor ahead by 3.8%. He ended up winning 54-45%. The proponents of those Wisconsin recalls appear to have made a serious tactical blunder because that made the Republican ground game into a formidable force.

  373. “I came to realize that life is that gift from God. And…even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”

    While I can easily find room to disagree with that, his view is standard theological precept.

    “Came to realise” – He had doubts about this at one time. Understandable.

    “And…even when life begins in that horrible situation” – Presumably the source of is understandable doubts.

    “something that God intended to happen.” – For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, Isaiah 55

    “Uncaring” assumes one of those lives affected is without worth. The innocent and helpless one.

    Not my intent to convince anyone that Mourdock’s view is the right one, only that he implies nothing bizarre or nasty unless one skews his words into a quite narrow-minded interpretation.

  374. imnotblue Says:

    In my Compass… Johnson tied Romney at 66%.

    And I ended up in the same place I always do… to the right fiscally, and in the middle socially.

    At least I’m consistent.

  375. I assume Compass pegged me for Johnson because I favour legalising drugs.

    This last Canadian national election was sorta kinda boring. I’m hoping for some crazy stuff in the next one… 2015, I think, unless PM Harper wants it early. Won’t ever happen, but I think it’d be really cool if Queen Elizabeth ordered an early election just ’cause she can.

  376. savefarris Says:

    Did the Obama campaign pull ads out of Virginia and Michigan?

    Did Obama have all that many in Michigan to begin with? From what I’ve read, Romney hasn’t made a play for Michigan. As such, Obama wasn’t spending that much anyway to defend it.

    Obama lost Virginia the second he compared our Naval forces to a bayonette.

  377. There were Obama/Biden ads playing incessantly 3 weeks ago in Virginia and the “war on women” meme did not go over well at all. After that first debate the slide was palpable.

    In Michigan that tactic didn’t seem to register one way or the other that I could tell, so don’t know what changed things. Obama/Biden ads play much less now and Romney/Ryan ads seem to be on the increase. My own unscientific “sense” has been that MI will go for Obama… but who knows? A popular governor and both houses of the legislature are Repub, and it’s much tighter than I ever expected.

    Only once in history has there been three consecutive two-termers: Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe, the 3rd-5th presidents about 195 years ago.

  378. John Sununu stepped in it last night when on Piers Morgan’s show when he was asked about Colin Powell endorsing Obama. After saying it wasn’t an important endorsement and giving the qualifier that “his boss” GHW Bush (not GW Bush?) had endorsed Romney he went on to say the ‘only’ reason he endorsed Obama was because they were both black.

    Now you can make the argument that race played a small role in the endorsement and I do but you can’t make that the only reason he went with Obama. It’s dismisses one of our greatest generals, over the last 30 years; who served loyally under a number of Republican Presidents as a simpleton who can only vote for the black candidate. Romney is now going to have to spend a day defending Powell and throwing Sununu under the bus.

    Yet another unforced error by the gang of far right buffoons that keep saying outrageous things Romney has to walk back.

  379. And then Joey veered right back into Stupid Land.

  380. imnotblue Says:

    @ fritz

    So I see you’re staying in “make-em-ups” land.

    “Frankly, when you take a look at Colin Powell, you have to wonder if that’s an endorsement based on issues, or whether he’s got a slightly different reason for preferring President Obama?” Sununu said on CNN’s “Piers Morgan Tonight.”

    “What reason would that be?” a somewhat-perplexed sounding Morgan replied.

    “Well, I think when you have somebody of your own race that you’re proud of being President of the United States, I applaud Colin for standing with him,” Sununu said.

    So what part of that statement comports with your assertion that:

    …he [Sununu] went on to say the ‘only’ reason he endorsed Obama was because they were both black.

    See, fritz… this is what happens when you only read blue blogs, or watch blue television. You believe lies.

  381. I see BW once again veered into “why don’t you stfu and let the smart one speak on your stupid shared username” land. You’re as dumb as a box of rocks. Or John Sununu.

  382. I have lost respect for Colin Powell. Not because of his endorsement but because he let Scooter Libby bear the blame for the Valerie Plame fiasco when he, Powell, knew full well that his own aide, Richard Armitrage, leaked her name. Not very honorable on Powell’s part. And after his endorsement he was never asked about the WH’s failure and web of lies re Libya and I wonder how he really feels about Libya.

  383. Colin Powell is the media’s favorite kind of Republican, IE the type who never supports his supposed party.

    – As dumb as a box of John Sununu –
    That works.

  384. carolmr: I concur with your reasoning. The whole Scooter Libby thing really showed people’s true colors. Armitage could have come forward himself or Powell could have come forward after telling Armitage you’ve got X amount of time to take responsibility for what you said. Think of how much money was wasted digging into this issue when a little truth telling from Armitage or Powell could have resolved the whole mess so much more quickly.

    If the wonderful General Powell had come forward do you believe anyone would have questioned his honesty? The special prosecutor would have had a hard time moving this thing forward if he had told the truth.

  385. Carol:Armitage was one of a number of people; including Karl Rove and Libby; who leaked the name of undercover agent Plame. He was the only one who apologized and expressed any regret for his actions. Powell had nothing to do with the Plame leaking decision. It was a Cheney and Rove scheme.

  386. Recent Presidential endorsements
    Obama — Colin Powell
    Romney — Meat Loaf

  387. Yeah, we were really hoping for Lena Dunham.

  388. Scooter Libby was convicted of obstructing justice. He’s a felon. I realize this is easy to forget since W let him take the fall for the administration, then gave him a Get Out Of Jail Free Card.

  389. FoxNews Homepage: 3X help requested – 3X help denied

    Nothing on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN as of 11:23am CST

  390. Yes, I remember how shocked we all were when Bush pardoned Scooter Libby.

  391. Gasoline in Ohio has dropped to $2.97 / gallon where I buy mine. And that’s with FRANENSTORM on the way.

    Changed my mind. Voting for Obama. He just needs more time. Mitt hates dogs and rape victims.

  392. Well, I’m guessing Hurricane Sandy will knock the election off MSNBC and CNN for a while. Question is, will it knock the Benghazi Witchhunt off FOX News?

  393. savefarris Says:

    Now you can make the argument that race played a small role in the endorsement and I do but you can’t make that the only reason he went with Obama

    My favorite part of Powell’s endorsement was how he said Obama hadn’t gotten us into any more wars. Has Gen. Powell ever heard of Libya?

  394. Libby took the fall for Colin Powell’s man, Armatidige, who actually blabbed about CIA cover girl, Valerie Vanity Fair. Obama’s terrorist pals should still be in jail, not Scooter. Or maybe the cocaine sniffing POTUS himself.

  395. Pam, with a hurricane expected to make landfall in the Northeast and the election, Benghazi is a non-story.

  396. Everyone know what John S. said was the truth. Glad he said what everyone was thinking but didn’t have the guts to say.

  397. Also, I’m going to punch the next person who posts on Facebook, “There were no terrorist attacks on American soil under Bush and one under Obama beause Republicans are strong on National Security.”

    September 11th + like, I don’t know, seven attacks on US embassies and consulates… yeah, it’s Obama who’s weak on security.

  398. No, Larry. You guys on the right want it to be the truth because you people believe anyone who supports Obama does so because he’s black. Give it a rest. There are actually people who have different ideology than you do. Not everyone is a right wing, chest thumping, bible hugging conservative.

  399. No Andy Panda, I just believe Colin Powell abandoned his party and endorsed Obama because of race as the deciding factor. Lots of white people like Obama for lots of reasons, but Powell wanted to give a boost to a brother.

  400. Benghazi is a “non-story”, Scooter Libby got off scot free, and Richard Mourdock is the REAL problem. You people amaze me.

  401. Laura, the “investigative reporting” from FOX is all politically driven. End of story. They deliberately mis-represented the facts about the emails and it wasn’t until CBS cleared the air on their BS that anyone knew. Terrorists on Twitter claiming responsibility is NOT evidence that the administration knew it was a terrorist attack that second. Terrorists also claimed responsibility on the internet for the 2003 blackout.

    The reason the other networks have to wait to report on a “FOX NEWS ALERT EXCLUSIVE BREAKING NEWS NOW” story (seriously, their graphics are annoying) is because they have to turn around and make sure FOX isn’t exaggerating the facts.

  402. Three requests for cover as it happened. You can blather about Fox all day long, but they’re the ones who actually got this. CNN hasn’t talked about Libya all morning. You can take your “politically driven” and shove it. They, Lied.

  403. Amended. Your PRESIDENT Lied.

  404. John Hayward ‏@Doc_0
    Your first time, you want to do it with a great guy. A guy who will leave you unprotected in a nest of heavily armed terrorists.

  405. Laura, nothing on MJ this morning about Libya, either. But a long, softball interview with Douglas Brinkley who interviewed Obama for Rolling Stone.

  406. “My favorite part of Powell’s endorsement was how he said Obama hadn’t gotten us into any more wars. Has Gen. Powell ever heard of Libya?”

    Powell credits Obama with getting us out of Iraq (on GW Bush’s timeline) but forgets that he, Powell, helped get us INTO Iraq. Like I said, not an honorable man.
    As far as Plame/Libby, I agree with Pam. If only Powell or Armitage had any decency, they would have admitted that it was Armitage that leaked Plame’s name. We didn’t find that out until we were well into the legal proceedings.

  407. Powell is an operative with the veneer of heroism. He’s also a moderate who could never deal with the inevitable blowback if he didn’t support Obama. Sununu was just stupid enough to say it out loud. No one cares about Powell, but this makes it a slight story for people who weren’t voting Romney anyway.

  408. Now Tapper is on it. Online. But he’s just another conservative journalist who never tells the truth.

  409. ” If only Powell or Armitage had any decency, they would have admitted that it was Armitage that leaked Plame’s name.”

    ^^Armitage did admit he leaked the name and said he was sorry. I’m not sure who you mean by “they”?

  410. Ha. It’s reported in the ‘Political’ section. How telling.

  411. If anyone will report on the new Libya info, it would be Jake Tapper.

    From Jim Geraghty at National Review:

    “Did your son always have balls the size of cue balls?” — Vice President Joe Biden to Charles Woods, grieving father of slain Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods, during a memorial service at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland.

  412. What was that vague pile of crap I was listening to on the way home? Oh, it was a Major Economic Speech? Shorter Mitt Romney: Everything will be all better, and it won’t cost anybody…ANYHING. #liar

  413. Fritz, by “they” I meant Powell and Armitage. When exactly did Armitage admit he leaked Plame’s name? I remember that he admitted it when it was too late to help Libby.

  414. Why didn’t FOX reach out to The Pentagon, The White House and The State Department for comment before running that story.

    Oh, right, because they reported it with the sole intention of making Obama look bad.

  415. Joe, Romney walked right back over to the far-right with that speech.

  416. Andy, that speech was insulting. It was mostly a litany of things Obama hasn’t accomplished, followed by “big change” and “American century” and “more jobs” and “we’re gonna do it”. He talks like Sarah Palin, only with the words in the correct order: State the problem. Say “we’re gonna fix it”. Then some pablum about “strength” and “small government” and “America oh yeah we the baddest”. It makes no damn sense.

  417. “When exactly did Armitage admit he leaked Plame’s name?”

    ^^ There were a number of interviews tin which he talked about his role in the Plame controversy. One was in Nov. 2007 with Wolf Blitzer.

    If your interested check out “Plame affair” om Wikipedia. They have an excellent summation of the whole affair including the role played by Armitage. Not biased unless you buy the whole ‘it was all a left wing conspiracy’ theory.

  418. Fritz, after years of speculation Armitage finally admitted in September of 2006 that he leaked Plame’s name. What took him so long? Powell knew all along that it was Armitage but said nothing.

  419. “Why didn’t FOX reach out to The Pentagon, The White House and The State Department for comment before running that story.”

    And you know they didn’t because? You are telepathic, omnipotent, a medium (like the gal from Long Island), a soothsayer, a psychic?

  420. What took him so long? Powell knew all along that it was Armitage but said nothing.

    ^^ Armitage leaked that she worked for the CIA and says he didn’t know she was covert at the time (she was Joe Wilson’s wife not Valerie Plame to him). He likes to gossip and was just passing on gossip about Wilson to press friends.

    I assume, but don’t know, they didn’t come forward because of the strained relations with the WH and VP’s office and the State Dept. at the time They thought the WH would try and make Armitage the scapegoat for the WH’s Libby & Rove leaking the name.

    Read the Wikipedia piece if want all the details. Libby and Rove were guilty. End of story.

  421. “And you know they didn’t because? You are telepathic, omnipotent, a medium (like the gal from Long Island), a soothsayer, a psychic?”

    Because, if they did, they aren’t saying they did. And any responsible reporter would say they did.

  422. The fact is, the media wants EVERYTHING to be Watergate now. FOX and the right wing dumbassophere have spent every day for a month and a half trying to make this sound, and this is their words, “worse than Watergate”. You have Glenn Beck saying that anyone in the military with any information that makes Obama look bad come forward.

    This is the exact same stuff the right wing dumbassophere pulled with Fast and Furious and, once again, instead of getting unbiased investigative journalism and non-partisan investigations, we’re getting elements of the media and Congress investigating only the elements of this situation that have political implications.

    The political media and their desire to break the next Watergate first, without the facts, has caused irreparable damage to the Republic.

  423. “Wikipedia”

    Hold on, let me edit it.

  424. How about you folks just admit that you support Obama no matter what he does, and stop embarrassing yourselves.

  425. You’re operating under the delusion that I “support Obama” to start with.

  426. Allow me my delusions. I’m not getting any younger,

  427. Bret Bair just asked Jennifer Griffin how reliable her sources were since there has been blowback on what FOX is reporting. She said, “Very reliable – sources on the ground in Benghazi”.

    There is a cover-up going on and it is becoming more “self-evident” every day.

    From someone in the military on another blog:

    FWIW, I flew close air support for over 20 years (A-10s, Korea, Europe (including the former Yugoslavia), etc. In the latter case, there were SAM threats virtually everywhere because the Serbs kept moving them around–we could tell that thanks to their periodic, area-wide “lighting us up” with their search and tracking radars that actually bagged one F-16 in the process before the real dust up in 1999.
    Whenever we got a call that someone on the ground needed help…EVEN WHEN WE WERE NOT SURE OF THE THREAT…if my flight got the tasking we rolled into 90 degrees of bank and pulled to the near stall to point the nose in the direction of the emergency. The Serbs had SA-6s–a bada$$ SAM in the hands of a skilled operator. What did al Qaeda have? Well, they sure as Hell didn’t have SA-6s…and 1) it was dark, so 2) finding an airborne target, 3) without radar, 4) at night and 5) having on hand only MANPADs (maybe, but I seriously doubt it) didn’t make it exactly Baghdad on Night One of Desert Storm.
    Virtually anyone with two brain cells to rub together on the Air Staff would have known this and probably could have provided an off-the-cuff SITREP/Threat Analysis to the SecDef in minutes, much less hours and probably would have been backed up by CIA boots-on-the-ground intel.
    Panetta’s snark is not only lame in its own right, it probably doesn’t reflect the advice he got from his uniformed military advisors. And I’ll guarantee you it did not reflect the attitude of every human being strapped into or sitting nearby a fixed-wing war machine within 1000 miles of the guys on the ground getting shot at.
    Not only were there Americans under attack, they were under attack on American soil, as I understand international law.
    If Spectres were there, the s**t storm they would have unleashed would have been spectacular in the face of a threat that was very probably, if not certainly, well within their comfort zone for surface-to-air threats.
    The timidity shown by our political leadership merely highlights their core values, not “How do we protect out own and respond to concerted and unmistakable enemy intent?,” but “How will this play on the Daily Show

  428. I don’t support Obama “no matter what”, and may end up going third party (which I earlier had ruled out) with @jillstein2012. I can’t support Mitt Romney. He lies about EVERYTHING. Today he said Chrysler was considering moving all Jeep production to China. It was complete bullsh!t based on vapor. He’s not qualified to be President.

  429. FOX finally has the CIA’s side of the story. And it’s not the standard “no comment”, they’ve flat out denied it.

  430. “We can say with confidence that the Agency reacted quickly to aid our colleagues during that terrible evening in Benghazi. Moreover, no one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need; claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate. In fact, it is important to remember how many lives were saved by courageous Americans who put their own safety at risk that night—and that some of those selfless Americans gave their lives in the effort to rescue their comrades.”

  431. Joe, Andy GOOD NEWS! I voted absentee and noticed the Socialist Party fielded candidates for President. So… there you go.

  432. noticed the Socialist Party fielded candidates for President

    Keep hope alive!

  433. Isn’t Jennifer Griffin the same one who made up the “human shields” crapoola that every other media outlet in the world denied?

    Time to face the facts: FOX screwed up, again. Their reporting is coming direct from Glenn Beck and the right wing blogosphere and, in this case, they didn’t even bother to see if the information they were getting wasn’t true. They didn’t care.

  434. Andy is undergoing premature self-gratification.

  435. We’d all be in a better mood, if that were the case.

  436. The thing about conspiracies, like the Benghazi conspiracy, is that no matter what evidence is given that the conspiracy isn’t true or who explains what actually happened, it and they just becomes another part of the growing original conspiracy.

    It never ends.

  437. What in the hell is Fritz babbling about?

  438. “The thing about conspiracies, like the Benghazi conspiracy, is that no matter what evidence is given that the conspiracy isn’t true or who explains what actually happened, it and they just becomes another part of the growing original conspiracy.”

    Like the birth certificate. Along with believing that’s fake, the dumbassophere also believes the college records will prove Obama’s a foreigner.

    They make up their own facts.

  439. JFK was killed by a second bullet fired by Bigfoot so LBJ could pass Medicare.

  440. Who knew making political ads for democrats was the gateway to a porn career?

    The democrats appear to think that the way to appeal to women voters is to fixate on their lady parts. We have been encouraged to vote like our lady parts depended on it, and now we are being encouraged to vote with our hymen. Meme: If you are a virgin, surely your first time should be with a married a man, over 50 years of age, and father of two. Lena Dunham – Fifty Shades Of Dorky.

  441. -Colin Powell Not because of his endorsement but because he let Scooter Libby bear the blame

    That is not correct. Richard Armitage told his boss, Sec Powell, immediately that he was the source of naming Valerie Plame. Mr. Powell instructed him to contact the FBI, which he did. Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor, was aware of and had a file on Armitage’s admission at the start of the official investigation. Attorney General Ashcroft and White House Council Ablerto Gonzalez were aware that Armitage was the source before the appointment of the special prosecutor. Armitage did not disclose his admission publicly because Fitzgerald instructed him not to.

    Mr. Armitiage was not prosecuted, presumably because there was no law broken by openly discussing Ms. Plame. The special prosecutor did not prosecute Scooter Libby for leaking classified information, nor was either he or Karl Rove ever accused of doing so.

    Unbeknownst at the time to either Karl Rove or his attorney was that Rove was under close scrutiny by the prosecutor because his sworn testimony did not disclose a conversation he had had with a journalist, of which the prosecutor was aware from other testimony. On a whim, the attorney instructed Rove’s staff to go through and re-catalogue the call logs after which the omission was discovered. Rove’s testimony was then amended to include that omission and, the very next day, Fitzgerald informed Rove’s attorney that his client was no longer a target of the investigation.

  442. ^^Thanks Al. My comments were mostly from memory (not great) or Wikipedia (not always accurate). It’s good to see what, I think, is a pretty accurate account of what happened.

  443. The thing about conspiracies, like the Benghazi conspiracy, is that no matter what evidence is given that the conspiracy isn’t true or who explains what actually happened, it and they just becomes another part of the growing original conspiracy.

    It never ends.

    Like those heinous lies about Sarah Palin not really being Trig’s mother?

  444. “Like those heinous lies about Sarah Palin not really being Trig’s mother?”

    ^^I’m not sure I would call that a true conspiracy; it’s more like tasteless political gossip; although when you add the part about Trigg actually being Bristol Palin’s son you get close. The thing is when it was all proven to be totally false, it ended. Real conspiracies never end The ‘GWB was behind 9/11’ conspiracy is closer to what I had in mind; if it has to be a real left wing conspiracy and there are lots of others.

  445. CURRENT TV is putting itself up for sale.

    They are throwing in the towel and the kitchen Cenk.

  446. “CURRENT TV is putting itself up for sale.”

    ^^ They are “considering’ putting themselves up for sale.- NY times

  447. A distinction without a difference.

  448. My daughter is considering becoming a whore.

    (just a matter of the offers that come in)

  449. savefarris Says:

    They are “considering’ putting themselves up for sale

    “We’re holding out for a higher bidder.” — CEO-speak

    You think Olbermann is vain enough to buy it himself?

  450. Could be the only option left for him, though he might need to buy his own satellite also.

  451. Maybe KO and Beck could get together and buy it. That would be a network worth watching.


    We scream, you decide.

  453. imnotblue Says:

    Remember folks… investigative journalism that might say something negative about your party, candidate, or desired election outcome… is wrong, and bad for everyone.

    It’s not bias, or demand that all news bend to your ideological will… it’s “something else.”

  454. ^ ^ I believe that’s “Unfair and Imbalanced”, Larry. “We Scream and (for you) deride.”

  455. I stand corrected.

  456. Obama has shown his snide and nasty side so much lately the old “but they like him personally” veneer has worn through it seems:

  457. I’m not sure I would call that a true conspiracy; it’s more like tasteless political gossip; although when you add the part about Trigg actually being Bristol Palin’s son you get close. The thing is when it was all proven to be totally false, it ended.

    No, it hasn’t.

  458. The Des Moines Register has endorsed Mitt Romney.

  459. Will the Superstorm knock the election off the top story on the cable political operations?

  460. ^ ^ Not sure that endorsement means a whole lot but it is certainly an unusual one.

    ^ Of course it will. Their own back yards will be wet.

  461. @rorycooper
    Des Moines Register endorsed Carter twice. Mondale. Dukakis. Gore. But couldn’t endorse another four years of Obama. Wow.

  462. Ever notice that the same liberals who love PSAs and little reminders not to smoke or beat your family are suddenly offended at billboards about voter fraud?

  463. Often wondered why God had created liberals, but I think He just needed something to explain the meaning of hypocrisy.

  464. ‏@adrian_gray
    Iowa: Partisan breakdown is 31% GOP and 44% Dem (rest are “no party”). In 2004 at this point, it was 27% GOP, 49% Dem (and Bush won IA).

  465. By putting out that statement yesterday that “no one at the CIA told anybody not to help those in need” during the attack in Libya, I think we can safely bet that DCI Petraeus isn’t going to endorse his boss’s re-election bid.

    Was probably a serious tactical blunder for admin & campaign spokespeople (including UN Secy Rice) to make the claim that they were relying on intel reports about the attack on the consulate for their public statements. And now we know that Pentagon had redeployed assets (including Delta Force) for contingency use means SecDef Panetta isn’t being terribly helpful for POTUS’s campaign, either.

    One of the dead ex-Navy Seals had transmitted coords of the heavy mortar fire so that could have been taken out from quite a distance and watched from one of the two drones flying overhead that the WH situation room was monitoring in real time.

  466. ^ Should have written “UN Amb Rice”. She’s not a cabinet Secy.

  467. CNN showed a picture of Marco Rubio with his daughter, obviously prior to her accident. The look on his face as he stands above her and looks toward the picture-taker is nothing so much as “Don’t even think about it or you’re dead where you stand”. She’s smiling and happy…he’s making sure it stays that way.

  468. I was just wondering about this,

    Oh wonderful….last night on the big island and they issue a Tsunami warning.

  469. Heeeeey, Secy laaaady…..

  470. So few people can do Jerry Lewis impressions, these days.

  471. A half hour ’til the tsunami hits. Spud is tweeting about it. Pray.

  472. Less than 8 minutes, stay safe Spud.

  473. Tsuami evaporates like an Obama recovery summer.

  474. I haven’t seen any analysis of how the ‘superstorm’ flood damage and possible week long power outages might effect the election turnout other than it might suppress the overall number of people that vote where these storm effects take place.

    My thinking, and it’s purely guesswork, is that, in general, the Democrats might benefit more than Republicans because in most states the urban vote is more Democratic and the suburban/rural vote tends to trend Republican.

    Storm effects, like power outages, often take much longer to repair in suburban and rural areas because they take longer to locate and repair, have less population and thus a lower priority and fewer essential services that also get priority.

    I don’t think it will have much effect in local races or in the overall POTUS race but in certain statewide races or some swing state POTUS races there might be some decrease in the total voter turnout in rural and suburban regions.

  475. Hard to believe, but MSNBC has had more hurricane coverage than CNN.

  476. lot of ex-Weathermen working there

  477. When did CNN become the worst network for breaking news?

  478. imnotblue Says:

    Umm… I was going with Gangnam Style. It’s only the most socially significant and relevant song of this generation.

    /arrogant teenybopper voice

  479. imnotblue Says:

    @ Andy

    Less hard to believe, since NBC owns the Weather Channel.

  480. “When did CNN become the worst network for breaking news?”
    — when they turned down the chance to buy the FOX NEWS ALERT system (and accompanying sound effect),

  481. Did I miss it, or did David Gregory not even mention the Des Moines Register endorsement of Romney?

  482. Why watch that Commie network? Bob Scheifer led off with it on CBS’s Face The Nation.

  483. One think you can go to the bank with is that if Donald Trump rears his ugly head during the week, Howie Kurtz will spend the first 15 minutes of RELIABLE SOURCES moaning about why the media pays too much attention to Trump. He never seems to see the irony.

  484. The NY Daily News also endorsed Romney. Not surprised – Mort Zuckerman isn’t really crazy about Obama. His liberal reporters must be pulling their hair out.

  485. The Daily Caller needs help with their titles. The article addresses that Shields and Brooks both said the same things about both candidates. Presenting the segment as one liberal singling out one candidate is disingenuous.

  486. Yeah, I caught that convenient omission.

  487. Hey Joe, Randy B fired by IndyCar.

  488. Geraldo on Fox,

  489. icemannyr Says:

    CNN and FNC are live at 8pm.
    MSNBC went to regular taped programming.

  490. Yeah, I heard, Andy. It’s about time for Tony George to come back and destroy American Open Wheel Racing again. Yippee.

  491. Why even mention MSNBC? It’s not a cable news channel.

    Manhattan Island experiencing a real blow-hard…. Geraldo reporting live.

    I hate hurried weekend travelling but battened-down the hatches and cleared-out of DC area. Now here in Michigan:


    It’s nice we’re having weather, dagnabbit.

  492. I hope everyone here who is on the east coast stays safe.

  493. MSNBC will be live all day tomorrow with election coverage. FOX will go back to Benghazi and CNN will cover the election. Cable news sucks.

  494. “Yeah, I heard, Andy. It’s about time for Tony George to come back and destroy American Open Wheel Racing again. Yippee.”

    He’s coming back to finish what he started 😦

  495. Hopefully the broadcast news and leading newspapers will properly report on the Benghazi affair after the election.

  496. @freddoso It’s been 7 wks since Benghazi, & Obama is still promising to investigate. Compare: 9 wks after 9/11, we’d taken Kabul

  497. They have properly reported on it.

    Using one sole anonymous source of information and not seeking comment from other parties involved is NOT proper reporting. It’s the opposite of proper reporting. It gives the impression that FOX News and the conservative media aren’t interested in both sides of the story — which they aren’t.

  498. I guess MSNBC decided not to cover the hurricane. Veronica De La Cruzposted on FB that she’d be anchoring coverage tonight and in the overnight hours.

  499. FOX has dumped out of Hurricane Sandy coverage for, you guessed it, Benghazi.

  500. Catherine Herridge reports several sources plus information gleaned from on-the-record testimony before congress. So far everything reported by FNC and CNN (plus a little from CBS) have proven to be accurate.

  501. FNC will be providing regular updates on Sandy throughout the night. It’s all repetitive now, anyway.

  502. Incorrect. We now know, beyond a doubt, that there were protests outside the US consulate in Benghazi (as CBS and the AP have reported with confirmation from numerous sources). What President Obama has said all along has proven to be true.

    As for the security, I have very serious concerns. But elements of the mainstream media have pursued their reporting in such a partisan way that their reports hold no credibility. Jennifer Griffin NEVER sought comment from the CIA before running her hit piece the other day. If the laws of journalism were punishable by law, she’d be in prison.

    The problem is, FOX and ABC approached this story with the mindset that Obama wanted four Americans killed and made it happen. Other media outlets have approached this story with the sole intent of bringing Obama down. When you approach a story with your mind made up as to what happened before you begin your investigative reporting, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to publish a fair and balanced report (which is why Griffin never contacted the CIA).

    FOX’s reporting is having it’s intended result though. Mitt Romney will win the election and, after he does, we will never hear about Benghazi again.

  503. Remember, it took five years to learn everything about 9-11 and the media didn’t care. But FOX wants EVERYTHING about Benghazi, right now. It’s all about politics, not about the truth. If there was a Republican in office, no media outlet would be investigating and that’s a fact. There were seven attacks on US embassies and consulates overseas under Bush and not one of them was investigated.

  504. “All was quiet outside the U.S. Consulate as evening fell on Benghazi and President Barack Obama’s envoy to Libya was retiring after a day of diplomatic meetings….” By BRADLEY KLAPPER | Associated Press – Wed, Oct 10, 2012

    No Protest.

  505. CNN has decided to cover the hurricane as teachers talking to 3rd graders. It’s very weird.

  506. FNC’s Brett Baeir also reported the subsequent claim that there was a protest. Really doesn’t matter whether there was a small protest happening or not, however, as it was a coordinated attack lasting over seven hours.

    The embassy attacks that took place under the previous administration were also well-defended and forces from host nations came to defend our people.

  507. ^^ We get to watch Chad Meyers show cartoons of jets leaving JFK

  508. imnotblue Says:


    So I’m here… in Manhattan, awaiting the storm. The INB Lady friend (already asleep) is a little panicked about Sandy, but INB remains confident that our high rise (which is not in the evacuation zone… yet, we’re Zone B) will be fine. The building already has generators and emergency lighting set up at the front door, just in case.

    We went to Costco today… which was less insane and horrible than one might think. Our supply of deodorant (4 pack), 2 big bottles of olives, and 6 boxes of cereal should help sustain us, if the worst happens. Also, the bottle of blended whiskey, while not as good as INB was hoping for (and is already two glasses less full), will make things more manageable, one way or another.

    As of now, there’s no rain, moderate wind, and it’s chilly but not uncomfortable.

    In related news, INB’s television station (a national sports network) has sent out emails saying they’re prepared for the worst, canceled NYC based studio or pass-through programs, and are ready to transfer master control responsibilities to other remote locations throughout the US, should sandbags, generators, and staffing requirements fail. Apparently expectations are high that this storm will be as bad as predicted.

    And that is all from here! Happy Monday.

    PS-If something catastrophic happens, ya’ll should remember the following:
    Joe you’re wrong.
    Fritz you’re very wrong
    .Larry, calm down
    .And Spud, I’m sure your snorkel would have come in handy. You simply must take better care of your equipment.

    (Cross posted in Free For All, because INB’s phone sucks)

  509. “The embassy attacks that took place under the previous administration were also well-defended and forces from host nations came to defend our people.”

    But the mantra then was “Bush is strong on security”.

    Why don’t you just admit, this is nothing more than an attempt to bring Obama down since Romney no longer has credibility on the economy. If Romney wins, we will never hear about Benghazi again.

  510. I don’t think Obama knew enough about foreign policy to handle this correctly. Mitt Romney is even less prepared.

  511. McCain really nailed Obama on Face the Nation today. You know Rice didn’t go on every Sunday show because they all just happened to call and invite her. She was there because the White House put her there to say what she said to throw sand on the burning embers before they started a major burn.

    As McCain said, “nobody died in Watergate”.

  512. FRANKENSTORM has me trapped in my cabin in the hills of SE Ohio for at least a few days with flood and wind warnings. Not to worry, I have a whole-house generator if the power goes out and cabin sits on top of a mountain. Plenty of food and beer.

  513. 4,000+ Americans died in Iraq and we still have no reason why our troops were sent there. The Beltway media and Congress never investigated that.

    Why don’t you all admit that this is all partisan?

  514. Finally, msnbc shuts up about the election and starts to cover the hurricane.

  515. Dear msnbc, MD is not a swing state. Early voting means nothing there. Obama will win MD.

  516. Andy babbling about Iraq, complains MSNBC covering election and not storm, then pingpongs about MSNBC election trivia that set him off.

    Too much caffeine or just random synapse bursts?

  517. savefarris Says:

    For those of you who poo-pooed anyone who found last month’s BLS numbers just a wee bit fishy, this isn’t going to help:

  518. Idiot question asked at President Obama’s briefing. It just proves that the Beltway media can only see things in the very narrow political spectrum.

  519. “For those of you who poo-pooed anyone who found last month’s BLS numbers just a wee bit fishy, this isn’t going to help:

    ^^ Let the conspiracy blathering begin!

  520. savefarris Says:

    Obama: “I want to create a Secretary of Business”

    uh, don’t you already have one? Or, at least, you did before the last one resigned. And you, in the middle of a “recovery”, didn’t bother to nominate a replacement.

    (Gee, you would think a non-biased media might ask why an administration so allegedly focused on the economy why they would go 6 months without a commerce secretary…)

    In other news, looks like Anderson Cooper’s going to have more free time.

  521. 4,000+ Americans died in Iraq and we still have no reason why our troops were sent there. The Beltway media and Congress never investigated that.

    You have got to be kidding.

  522. The kind of comment a nut would make.

  523. …and if anyone is a good judge of ‘nuts’ its Larry Kelly…

  524. Why, thank you so very much!

  525. “You have got to be kidding.”

    Where are the WMD?

  526. “2006 on Line One,,”

  527. savefarris Says:

    If you’re wondering whether Reverend Al would politicize Sandy and use it to attack Romney…

  528. savefarris Says:

    If you’re wondering whether Chris Matthews would politicize Sandy and use it to attack Romney…

  529. Farris, when someone frequently says he wants to cancel disaster relief and turn it over to his criminal friends on Wall Street, it’s to be expected.

  530. savefarris Says:

    …and he kills puppies and children too!!!

  531. Helen Georgia, in the last hour.

    #Helen Georgia #nofilter

    A post shared by Craig Lucie (@craiglucie) on

  532. imnotblue Says:

    And there goes the Emergency Alert system. Our wind-up radio started beeping, and then the phones said, “TAKE COVER NOW!”

    That’s a little alarming.

  533. Am seeing the sky light up off i the distance in bright blue, white, and pink flashes. Somebody’s power went out. Power lines are all underground in my neighbourhood but I best not get too cocky. Wind gusts are shaking the house and I’m hundreds of miles from Sandy.

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