So, if Iraq had been a successful intervention then Ms. Maddow would say that opponents of the war shouldn’t be interviewed about our policies there? Including herself?
Does it go both ways or just one?
I was marginally against the war at the time. But I was assured – or thought I was – that the same people who engineered the Gulf War and had, relatively easily, removed the Taliban would also be able to smoothly pull off the removal of Saddam’s regime.
Of course the problem isn’t removing a government from power; it’s putting a new one in.
In the cauldron that is the Middle East, no one knows how to do that.
Neither Bush or Obama are to blame for this. The causes are the radical elements in that region and the sectarian-driven policies of the Baghdad government. We are not responsible for those factors.
I’ll offer that had Saddam not been removed from power a decade ago that Iraq today would be in much of the same situation it is today. Saddam would have been removed – either internally or by the Shias – and that country would be in its death throes of sectarianism.
That’s not a defense of the war; the cost was too high and the direct threat to us too low.
“So, if Iraq had been a successful intervention then Ms. Maddow would say that opponents of the war shouldn’t be interviewed about our policies there? Including herself?
Does it go both ways or just one”
^^I’m sure Maddow would be telling anyone who participated in or pushed for starting a war under false pretenses, like the war in Iraq, to shut up. If you have a case where she defended a decision, based on lies, like invading Iraq I’d like to here it. BTW: The incident Benghazi isn’t one.
Ari Melber looked genuinely surprised to see Lawrence O’Donnell show up live for the last segment of Thursday’s The Last Word. Lawrence will be back full time on Monday. I think Ari did a very good job on the anchor chair. I hope MSNBC gets him out of The Cycle fluff hour and gives him his own show already. He’s far more seasoned than some of the other people they’ve put on in recent years.
“I think Ari did a very good job on the anchor chair. I hope MSNBC gets him out of The Cycle fluff hour and gives him his own show already. He’s far more seasoned than some of the other people they’ve put on in recent years.”
^^I agree Ari has developed into a very talented host over the last year. When he started subbing he was stiff and formal. Now he’s relaxed and comes across as a much better performer. I’m not sure he will get his own show anytime soon as his skill as a sub host under a mix of formats is very useful to MSNBC. And he gets just as
much, if not more, airtime as a sub host as he would in a named show. My guess his next stop is subbing for Jansing until Jose Diaz Balart’s show starts.
Predicting the new empathetic LOD, will quickly adjust to the old unempathetic saddle.
George Will’s controversial column on sexual assault and campus investigatory standards was a rarity for him: poorly written and sloppily argued. But no one thinks he believes that sexual assault is socially acceptable as that risible letter from the US Senators claimed.
Will needed to more clearly explain that he was referring to women who allege they were sexually assaulted – not real victims of assault – and the real danger that results with the lower standards of due process that universities use to investigate the allegations.
Campuses are folding to pressure from radical women’s groups who think that many of the basic rights of men accused of this crime can be dismissed because “no women would ever make a false claim.” Oh really? Or that men and women can never be confused over what happened when they did have sex. It’s a more complicated issue than these campus zealots wish to realize.
Women claiming – claiming – sexual assault are getting privileges – yes they are – that are threatening the rights of those they accuse. And that simply cannot stand.
Let the legal authorities handle sex assault claims not these kangaroo tribunals. If the men are found guilty, throw the book at them. But follow due process during the matter.
Pigs are guilty of pigginess until proven otherwise. Oink.
Yeah, the feminists aren’t necessarily entirely wrong either.
Just because they recklessly, in my view, demand that universities lower the standards used to investigate the claims doesn’t mean they don’t have a legitimate complaint or concern.
It’s hard to tell what is going on at these campuses. Will sort of contradicts himself. He cites the changing mores on sex that we have, especially on campuses. Then he mentions the drinking problem that are also there.
Well, if you add those two together you’ll not only get confusion sexually but also, I think, more actual assaults. Strong, drunk men who can’t control their urges.
Universities may be dangerously jettisoning due process rights AND there may actually be more assaults going on. Will needed to consider this second matter.
Ugh, I just re-read my posts.
Much too serious of a topic for a cable-news blog. Even if it’s a “free-for-all” topic.
My apologies to Spud, wherever he is.
Yes, in the netherworld of academia a “sexual assault” consists of “toughing one on the outside of their clothing”. So dont brush up against some chick in the elevator or crowd. You are a “rapist” .
Until they get sued…and are getting sued now over this nonsense. And that silly stat of “1 in 5” women are raped is an outright lie made up of thin air and ludicrous on its face. Changing definitions does wonders for your cause.
Your crassness and stupidity continues to confound me.
First, under Obamacare, I liked my doctor and my health insurance AND I got to keep both. I am not alone. Yes, some people had their healthcare disrupted and caused them to find another dr. I am sorry for that, however, regardless of what kind of healthcare reform was enacted, some people will be disrupted. Get over it. It was not a lie to me or the majority of people like me. WMD in Iraq was a lie to everyone, without exception. Saying Saddam helped hijackers on 9/11 was an unequivocal lie to everyone.
Second, the la times article was about premium support and not about overall health care costs. Read the WHOLE article or are the words too big for you? Deficit reduction was a longer term projection based upon cost savings to other health care expenditures like medicare. Has the deficit gone down yet? Oh, well, yes, actually the deficit is falling. Ok, not fair to say it is because of obamacare but thats a statement I can make because I am interested in facts and not your ideological derp. It can’t be called a “lie” if the sufficient time span has not passed. Its certainly not a lie if the deficit is in fact shrinking. Like EVERY reform bill (even ones passed by Republicans) budgets are based on economic forecasts and projections. Its always a best guess. Will obamacare bend the cost curve – I am skeptical it will do as much as they say but jury is still out. Saying a 10yr long war costing trillions was supposed to be free and last a matter or weeks to months, well, if you think that is no big deal then obamacare is a drop in your bloody bucket.
Finally, you cannot seriously be comparing healthcare reform where we bicker about monthly insurance premiums to A WAR ON BASED FALSE PRETENSES AND SUBSEQUENTLY GROSSLY MISMANAGED? That’s the most comparable analogy in your mind?! Get a life. For once, try waking up in the morning and not spend every last brain cell whining about and hating on Democrats. You might find life more enjoyable. Otherwise you are going to end up like Larry.
Oh boo hoo, you’ve made Larry cry.
Such a shame the commentary on this site has really devolved into an arms race of stupid.
Partisanship is to be expected on a site like this but now its down to a bunch of bitter, angry, naive, old cranks mansplaining the world from their sheltered little man cave. Now that you ba!! scratchers have solved the campus sexual assault problem, are you gonna tackle abortion next? How about family planning or equal pay? How’s that health-care reform plan alternative going? Nothing? Yeah, I didn’t expect much from a group a guys with one thumb up their @s$ and the other poking a keyboard.
It would be wise to stick to issues that involve just your own man parts because until you get your own house in order, we womb-possessing types have no use for your moronic lectures.
Heehee. Elle comes in to lecture by calling everybody she disagrees with a multitude of disparaging names. That’s neat.
And discussion elevating too.
And comment elevating too.
Yes, some people had their healthcare disrupted and caused them to find another dr. I am sorry for that, however, regardless of what kind of healthcare reform was enacted, some people will be disrupted.
But that’s not how it was sold, was it? Obama made the promises he made because if he had not, the bill wouldn’t have passed. And the only reason your and your friends plans haven’t been touched yet is because Obama broke his own law by delaying the employer mandate until after the midterms. Because he knew that if everyone who had employer-based insurance had been subjected to this s%^#storm, Dems would lose the House, Senate & WH for a generation.
Saying Saddam helped hijackers on 9/11 was an unequivocal lie to everyone.
Which is why no one said it. The worry was the NEXT 9/11, not the previous one.
Deficit reduction was a longer term projection based upon cost savings to other health care expenditures like medicare.
You mean like the Doc Fix, that everyone knew then was always going to pass later on and blow up the projected savings, only since it was in a different bill, Democrats could claim deniability?
Its certainly not a lie if the deficit is in fact shrinking.
Kinda depends on *WHY* the deficit is shrinking, no? For goodness sakes, don’t you dare blame the sequester!
Will obamacare bend the cost curve – I am skeptical it will do as much as they say but jury is still out.
It’s out for other years, but not for this one. Obamacare made specific cost projections about THIS year. And it busted THIS YEAR’S projected budget. So yes, we can make judgements already based upon the evidence already in.
By your logic, we can’t use Global Warming projections to take any action, because those predictions haven’t come true yet.
you cannot seriously be comparing healthcare reform where we bicker about monthly insurance premiums to A WAR ON BASED FALSE PRETENSES AND SUBSEQUENTLY GROSSLY MISMANAGED?
If people end up dying because Obamacare prevents them from getting and/or affording the care they need, then we can certainly compare body counts. And judging by his bang-up work at the VA, Mr. President already has a pretty good head start.
Elle! I enjoyed that a great deal.
Thanks, Elle, for proving my point about radicals on campuses. And with such a high level of intellectual thought and deep consideration.
The next time I write about this subject I’ll just let you have the floor.
So you can fall face first onto it.
Apparently if a woman accuses a man of assault then his due process rights and presumption of innocence and the requirement that the claims must be proven are “man things”? Is that the argument?
Frankly, that’s about a sexist a view as anything any male could ever make.
I think most woman – but not the radical types, female or male – consider due process rights as just as important as men do. After all, those are rights that belong to all of us regardless of gender.
Law professor Ann Althouse nails it:
“Out with that phallocratic due process bullsh**! “Sentence first — verdict afterwards.”
And to put a bow on this: Hillary Clinton defended a man (horrors!) and his due process rights (shocking!) after being accused of raping a 12-year old girl.
Will simply wrote about the due process rights of men accused of assault. And for that he must be silenced.
Mrs. Clinton actually defended a man accused of assault.
I’ll await the outrage from the likes of the “mod lib” Ms. Grantham.
Erich, I’m enjoying your clear thinking.
My company had an email system similar to the IRS with Microsoft EXCHANGE servers and backup archives of mail older than two years on individual hard drives. Our users were instructed to periodically backup their mail archive files onto CD in case of a disk crash. AND ALSO, we backed up the servers to tape with end of year tapes kept off site (forever). Restoring email from the tapes was a pain, but I did so several times to provide evidence in lawsuits.
I retired from IT in 2008, and I can’t believe the IRS didn’t have a better system than my company! I was always begging for funds.
The fact that IRS claimed the losses occurred on multiple drives (seven I believe) led the IT expert on NPR this morning to conclude, to the host’s chagrin, they were lying.
I think Dems may need to look real hard at Elizabeth Warren; in fact, they probably are. Hillary is a lawyer, which practically guarantees that more stories like this will come out. And at some point, people will realize that her main “qualification” as First Woman President is that she was once married to one. As a feminist, the irony of that should be a bit tough to swallow.
is Warren too much a creature of the left to win a nomination, let alone the election?
Is Warren too much a creature of the left to win a nomination, let alone the election?
There’s a lot of energy on the left for her to run, so I think she would have a shot at the nomination if Hillary proves to be as agitated about having to campaign as the first week of her “book tour” displayed (she clearly would prefer to become president without having to do that pesky “asking for votes”).
The General is another animal entirely. No one knows what a Nominee Elizabeth Warren would be like to the country at large, so it beats the heck outta me.
“No one knows what a Nominee Elizabeth Warren would be like to the country at large”
^^The thing is both are women and I don’t think you can underestimate that fact. Hillary would be a better candidate (although I personally prefer Warren) because she is more centrist but I think many many women, particularly moderate Republican women, would vote for either just because of their gender. Being the first women on top of the ticket is a game changer.
…but I think many many women, particularly moderate Republican women, would vote for either just because of their gender.
I very much disagree. Republican women – even the imagined “moderate” ones I don’t think actually exist – detest Hillary Clinton.
“Republican women – even the imagined “moderate” ones I don’t think actually exist – detest Hillary Clinton.”
^^Some/many Republican women “detest Hillary Clinton.” Some/many do not. Hillary or any women canidate has the same advantage with women that Obama had with African Americans or Mitt Romney had with Mormons.
It’s not that they get every vote in a certain demographic. It’s that they get a larger majority than someone not in that certain demographic.
^^canidate >>> candidate Sorry.
As horrible awful as it supposedly is to say it, a lot of people (including Republicans) voted for Obama as First Black President. No reason to think that the same thing won’t happen with Hillary. Or Warren, for that matter.
Hillary was very popular here in Ohio in 2008. Defeated Obama in the primary. About the main negative thing I’ve heard from Republican woman is about her giving Bill so many cheats on her. I’ve always kind of liked her too.
I don’t know how much Bill’s “history” matters, anymore. Not to be indelicate, but he’s old, At this point, people will give her credit for hanging in with him, and won’t really want to be reminded of what he’s done in the past.
Al Jazeera America has been airing the international AJE feed a lot more lately. I wonder if there are already budget cuts or something?
Is Spud snorkeling today? Not that I’d blame him, June’s a fine month to be in the water. I’m surprised he hasn’t run anything about the Al Jazeera staff that were convicted of journalism and sentenced to jail in Egypt.
Someone pointed out that Mubarak got three years, while AJA journalists got 7-10. That’s some weird priorities.
Well, Ibrahim Mahlab was one of Mubarak’s right-hand men and the coup d’état that overthrew the Mohamed Morsi/Muslim Brotherhood regime was Mubarak’s old guard, so…
“Good Morning America” won Outstanding Morning Program at Daytime Emmys beating NBC’s “Today,” “CBS This Morning,” and “CBS Sunday Morning.” CBS got robbed in my humble opinion.
ABC News, as a whole, is unwatchable.
Quote of the day:
“Hearing a lecture on journalistic ethics from David Brock is like hearing a lecture on medical ethics from Josef Mengele,” FREE BEACON’s Continetti
It is absolutely shameful that journalists reporting there are Egyptians who support the Muslim Brotherhood like the BBC, Fox, or CNN would get 7 years in prison. What’s equally as shameful is people dismissing the AJE journalists as terrorists. If they’re actually terrorists, the conservative Australian PM Tony Abbott wouldn’t have spoken in support of Peter Greste.
They’ve cut four hours or so of USA newscasts… but those are all AJE simulcasts and I think they’ve cut a couple of hours of reruns for AJE. It’s a good thing, IMO, but I hope it’s not because of budget cuts or anything.
Lawrence O’Donnell is back tonight.
“Lawrence O’Donnell is back tonight.”
Just watched the return and his opening monologue was some of the best writing I’ve seen on cable news. LOD can be a bit over the top and maudlin but this was right on point. He says his recent trauma has changed him and maybe that’s true. If so his show should be an interesting change from the usual MSNBC PT fare. I’m a sceptic so we’ll see how the show looks in August. My guess we’ll see the return of the old LOD by then.
Someone needs to tell Jon Stewart that Dick Cheney hasn’t been a member of the Executive Branch for over 5 years now.
Some needs to tell Dick Cheney.
I really have to wonder if Cheney possesses all his faculties. Much smarter people have said that relitigating 2003 doesn’t help, right now. At the same time, NO one is going to listen to the people who put us there, and haven’t made the slightest admission that it may not have been the best idea.
Gets liberals to wet their pants. Love the former V.P. For that.
The backers of AJAM are supporters of the Muslim brotherhood. That’s going to have subtle influence in the reporting here, but the usual characters will deny it.
Iraq, IRS, Benghazi, ObamaCare, EPA, Immigration.
At this point, what difference does it make? LEBRON IS MAKING ANOTHER DECISION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everybody sells out. just a question of how long it takes.
At least it’s the original version. Letting the company use some Muzak, bast@rdized version of your song doesn’t make it any less of a sellout, so let it fly.
In WaPO: “The U.S. military’s ongoing slur of Native Americans,
“Calling our helicopters Apache and our missiles Tomahawk is just as offensive.”
No, I will not give you a link to this crap.
This is the problems with giving them an inch on “Redskins” (or should I abridge that, for the sake of WordPress moderation?). The People Who Are Offended can always find something else about which to Be Offended.
From his biography:
“At the outset of Clinton’s presidency, Stephanopoulos served as the de facto press secretary, briefing the press even though Dee Dee Myers was officially the White House Press Secretary. Later, he was moved to Senior Advisor on Policy and Strategy, when Myers began personally conducting the briefings (following several verbal missteps by Stephanopoulos) and David Gergen was brought in as the new White House Communications Director. The move was largely viewed as a rebuke to Stephanopoulos’s handling of public relations during the first six months of the Clinton administration.”
This is so, so true.
These victories today were by 1 vote. Remember that before you whine about not being able to vote for a @GOP Senate candidate you don’t like.
And on the flipside.
Jeff Greenfield @greenfield64
Re: today’s supreme court cases: How many 2000 Nader voters still think it made no difference whether Bush or Gore won?
God bless GWB.
And the people who raised hell over Harriet Myers. Alito ruling.
I remember how much the left hated Lieberman, and still do. McDaniel lost fair and square, under rules that Republicans have themselves exploited in a number of cases, so move on already.
And if you think this sort of attitude helps with Voter ID, you’re nuts.
Just finished watching our sad excuse of a President lie through his teeth again on TV. “Most of these children will be sent back.” He knows most won’t even show up for their hearings. Most won’t be sent back. Maybe a handful. His problem with Congress isn’t the Tea Party. The problem is no one trusts this guy to keep his promises.
Jeff Greenfield: Roberts/Alito nominated in 2005. Bush’s 2nd term. After defeating Kerry/Edwards. Nader/Gore/2000 had nothing to do with today’s decision.
But stay classy!!
Huh? No Nader, no Bush first term. No Bush first term, no Bush second term. No Bush second term, no Alito.
Also, whoever had the office 3 years after 9/11 had a pretty clear shot at re-election; the country was still largely unified behind the sitting CiC.
Of course, a primary challenge by John Edwards would have done him in. 😉
Clearing the way for…George Bush.
Older and wiser, I’m certain.
Also, whoever had the office 3 years after 9/11 had a pretty clear shot at re-election
They said the same thing about whoever had the office after Gulf War I. Stuff happens.
In other news, Obama broke the Christine O’Donnell rule. If you have to say “It’s not socialism…”